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Message: <blockquote data-quote="clearstream" data-source="post: 8296907" data-attributes="member: 71699">The view I'm drawn to is<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">partly to acknowledge [USER=6795602]@FrogReaver[/USER]'s point that there was something labelled "skilled play" that makes most sense within its original context;</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">partly to acknowledge that for many posters a modern take on "skilled play" results in thinking about skilled play (no quotes), and of course what that is varies by context;</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">and partly to suggest based on my own reading and intuitions, that a take on "skilled play" (modern and original) that may span contexts is to use it as a label for play that while emphasising skill inclusively, is also interested in skill outside the game system.</li> </ul>So what I mean by that last - skill outside the game system - is that a group who aims to perform "skilled play" (quotes) is going to desire challenges that can't be solved (or can't be solved most efficiently and powerfully) using only the game mechanics.A simple and incomplete example might be that they would look for players to tell them something about how they approach "persuading the Queen by rolling against Charisma (Persuasion)" that makes them believe she will set aside her trait of "will not listen to persuasive words." The group can't just make the check, they must describe an approach to overcoming an obstacle that has no representation in the game mechanics.Were this how we saw "skilled play" then for me it would be a useful label, disambiguated from simply skilled play (no quotes). It would refer to a kind of play that I enjoy. More importantly, I can derive consequences from it, such as<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">rules that frame process, i.e. that bracket "skilled play" and can translate it into ongoing consequences (time taken, resources used) might be valuable</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">the 5e skills system is perfectly capable of responding to "skilled play" moves, such as in my example allowing the check at all, allowing help with the check, apply advantage or disadvantage, raising or lowering the stakes (promises made, resources consumed, leverage spent), deciding how much time it takes, and so on</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">referring to my OP, for me it makes a neat exit from tension with CRPG because for sure CRPG cannot resolve things outside of the programmed game mechanics... albeit those are becoming increasingly extensive and are opening up (and will continue to open up) space for ingenuity and some classes of skill</li> </ul>If modern "skilled play" (quotes) is simply skilled play (no quotes) then I do not feel a need for the label: I would find it more straightforward to simply say our context and discuss what we mean by skill.</blockquote>

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