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<blockquote data-quote="clearstream" data-source="post: 8298057" data-attributes="member: 71699"><p>On the one hand, any time a DM decides what happens next without following a rule that specifies exactly what happens next, they are doing something on the gradient of force. Their soft moves can be softer or less soft. Their hard moves, harder or less hard. Right up to simple fiat - what you call force - which may override what the rules specify should happen next. In all of these decisions they are shaping play.</p><p></p><p>For DM-as-player shaping play is a skill and can be done more or less skillfully. Their decisions create framing or context - constraints and opportunities - for player skill. That could elevate the skill requirement, not obviate it. I feel you see force as a very black and white technique. Based on my experience and what I see other DMs doing, I do not see it that way.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Oh, I thought you were aware of this thread <a href="https://www.enworld.org/threads/on-skilled-play-d-d-as-a-game.680080/" target="_blank">On Skilled Play</a> in which "skilled play" is introduced as a label. And either it was in that or related threads that it was connected to B/X and OSR.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I see. There is no such confusion. Checks are employed in my arguments only as an example of a way to achieve an outcome by employing a game mechanic without any detailed description of character actions in the fiction. Other examples that I see used by people is <em>passwall</em> and spells of that ilk.</p><p></p><p>In threads like the one I linked above, it was counted not very "skilled play" to rely on such mechanics unardorned. Even though I agree with you that they might still be used <em>skillfully </em>without adornment.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Adjudication is never consistent in human-arbitrated RPGs. Thus to say that it must be would be to deny the possibility of skilled play. However, that might give us insight into how to assess skill in such RPGs. It's a fuzzy construct. As I elsewhere mentioned, it isn't at all like simply counting wins in <em>Chess</em> to produce an Elo (skill ranking for players).</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="clearstream, post: 8298057, member: 71699"] On the one hand, any time a DM decides what happens next without following a rule that specifies exactly what happens next, they are doing something on the gradient of force. Their soft moves can be softer or less soft. Their hard moves, harder or less hard. Right up to simple fiat - what you call force - which may override what the rules specify should happen next. In all of these decisions they are shaping play. For DM-as-player shaping play is a skill and can be done more or less skillfully. Their decisions create framing or context - constraints and opportunities - for player skill. That could elevate the skill requirement, not obviate it. I feel you see force as a very black and white technique. Based on my experience and what I see other DMs doing, I do not see it that way. Oh, I thought you were aware of this thread [URL='https://www.enworld.org/threads/on-skilled-play-d-d-as-a-game.680080/']On Skilled Play[/URL] in which "skilled play" is introduced as a label. And either it was in that or related threads that it was connected to B/X and OSR. I see. There is no such confusion. Checks are employed in my arguments only as an example of a way to achieve an outcome by employing a game mechanic without any detailed description of character actions in the fiction. Other examples that I see used by people is [I]passwall[/I] and spells of that ilk. In threads like the one I linked above, it was counted not very "skilled play" to rely on such mechanics unardorned. Even though I agree with you that they might still be used [I]skillfully [/I]without adornment. Adjudication is never consistent in human-arbitrated RPGs. Thus to say that it must be would be to deny the possibility of skilled play. However, that might give us insight into how to assess skill in such RPGs. It's a fuzzy construct. As I elsewhere mentioned, it isn't at all like simply counting wins in [I]Chess[/I] to produce an Elo (skill ranking for players). [/QUOTE]
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