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<blockquote data-quote="clearstream" data-source="post: 8298097" data-attributes="member: 71699"><p>Well, this speaks to why I didn't want to go beyond game-as-artifact. Unless I write a wall of text, it is easy to mistake what is meant. First, to say house rules is not to denigrate. I just wanted to give insight as to what "exogenous rules" might refer to.</p><p></p><p>To your point then, yes: games contain many categories of rules. One category might be termed principles, by which we probably mean guidance as to the way other parts of the game should be used given that those parts could be used in a number of ways.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Actually, in Free Kriegsspiel they are exogenous, and that is the value of them. The referee is supposed to bring their war experience from outside the game, and apply it freely inside the game. The principle is that the referee should do that, but the coherency to the referee's judgements is exogenous.</p><p></p><p></p><p>This is to restate or exemplify the point, right? The written principles guide the player as to the use of the rest of the game. Those are endogenous. (Refer to Jarvinen and Huizinga by the way, for more on this idea.) You are not however refuting the existence of exogenous rules though, right? When you say - "I don't agree with this" - is it right to guess that you agree that there are exogenous principles and techniques, but want to stress that there are also endogenous ones. I didn't say there were not.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I feel the issue here comes down to my use of "house rules" being misleading or problematic for you. Let's not use it then: I have no special attachment to it. I would offer the exogenous / endogenous idea as helpful. And I do feel it is possible to say something about what written-rules-as-principles are doing compared with other written-rules. As outlined above.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="clearstream, post: 8298097, member: 71699"] Well, this speaks to why I didn't want to go beyond game-as-artifact. Unless I write a wall of text, it is easy to mistake what is meant. First, to say house rules is not to denigrate. I just wanted to give insight as to what "exogenous rules" might refer to. To your point then, yes: games contain many categories of rules. One category might be termed principles, by which we probably mean guidance as to the way other parts of the game should be used given that those parts could be used in a number of ways. Actually, in Free Kriegsspiel they are exogenous, and that is the value of them. The referee is supposed to bring their war experience from outside the game, and apply it freely inside the game. The principle is that the referee should do that, but the coherency to the referee's judgements is exogenous. This is to restate or exemplify the point, right? The written principles guide the player as to the use of the rest of the game. Those are endogenous. (Refer to Jarvinen and Huizinga by the way, for more on this idea.) You are not however refuting the existence of exogenous rules though, right? When you say - "I don't agree with this" - is it right to guess that you agree that there are exogenous principles and techniques, but want to stress that there are also endogenous ones. I didn't say there were not. I feel the issue here comes down to my use of "house rules" being misleading or problematic for you. Let's not use it then: I have no special attachment to it. I would offer the exogenous / endogenous idea as helpful. And I do feel it is possible to say something about what written-rules-as-principles are doing compared with other written-rules. As outlined above. [/QUOTE]
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