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<blockquote data-quote="Manbearcat" data-source="post: 8299435" data-attributes="member: 6696971"><p>1) There are things in this post I agree with and things I don't agree with (which should be clear enough which those are given all the exchanges we've had). HOWEVER...I just want to say that I feel like this is your best and most clear offering to date of all of your posts. This is an extremely good post. Bravo (snobby head nod with wine glass raised)!</p><p></p><p>2) Only thing I want to pull out from this is the bottom bit because I don't know if I've addressed this directly at any time before:</p><p></p><p><em>I hadn't thought about the rudderlessness like this before. On one hand I agree with it. On the other hand if you have a rudder-audience mismatch then your design won't succeed anyway. Well, it can succeed on its own terms - as a piece of craftsmanship - <strong>but not in terms of being very widely embraced and enjoyed.</strong></em></p><p></p><p>I don't agree with this. The reason why I don't agree with this is because my tastes in TTRPGing are CLEARLY niche. So far as I can tell, the overwhelming % of present TTRPG players are quite happy to (a) be told a good/riveting/interesting story by the GM while they only have fleeting and/or relatively impotent input (compared with other games) on play trajectory (their play is BIG on characterization and pantomime but low on actual volition), (b) be steeped in setting tourism of some variety (particularly if they are attached to a particular setting, its tropes, its NPCs - eg FR), and (c) they're very happy for the deft application of Illusionism (covert GM Force) in order to "keep the story online" (competitive integrity of gamestate trajectory and skilled play be damned)! <strong>Rudderless design fundamentally aids this play paradigm.</strong></p><p></p><p>The Forge calls these player archetypes "Participationists" and the play "Participationism." Its one of the Forges best offerings in my opinion. And my sense is that the gaming world at large is a vast majority of these players. Consequently, it appears that "aversion to Force (and resultant subversion of the competitive integrity of the throughline of the gamestate)" is not a factor in a game "being very widely embraced and enjoyed!"</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Manbearcat, post: 8299435, member: 6696971"] 1) There are things in this post I agree with and things I don't agree with (which should be clear enough which those are given all the exchanges we've had). HOWEVER...I just want to say that I feel like this is your best and most clear offering to date of all of your posts. This is an extremely good post. Bravo (snobby head nod with wine glass raised)! 2) Only thing I want to pull out from this is the bottom bit because I don't know if I've addressed this directly at any time before: [I]I hadn't thought about the rudderlessness like this before. On one hand I agree with it. On the other hand if you have a rudder-audience mismatch then your design won't succeed anyway. Well, it can succeed on its own terms - as a piece of craftsmanship - [B]but not in terms of being very widely embraced and enjoyed.[/B][/I] I don't agree with this. The reason why I don't agree with this is because my tastes in TTRPGing are CLEARLY niche. So far as I can tell, the overwhelming % of present TTRPG players are quite happy to (a) be told a good/riveting/interesting story by the GM while they only have fleeting and/or relatively impotent input (compared with other games) on play trajectory (their play is BIG on characterization and pantomime but low on actual volition), (b) be steeped in setting tourism of some variety (particularly if they are attached to a particular setting, its tropes, its NPCs - eg FR), and (c) they're very happy for the deft application of Illusionism (covert GM Force) in order to "keep the story online" (competitive integrity of gamestate trajectory and skilled play be damned)! [B]Rudderless design fundamentally aids this play paradigm.[/B] The Forge calls these player archetypes "Participationists" and the play "Participationism." Its one of the Forges best offerings in my opinion. And my sense is that the gaming world at large is a vast majority of these players. Consequently, it appears that "aversion to Force (and resultant subversion of the competitive integrity of the throughline of the gamestate)" is not a factor in a game "being very widely embraced and enjoyed!" [/QUOTE]
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