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Story Now, Skilled Play, and Elephants
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<blockquote data-quote="Ovinomancer" data-source="post: 8299557" data-attributes="member: 16814"><p>TFW your mentions are all about other people using you as a proxy for there own argument instead of addressing your points which either already answer the question being asked or directly refute it. Like where I said that there's absolutely skill in telling stories, and mention examples of such, but say that the goal of telling good stories cuts against skilled play only to be mentioned as someone that thinks that telling stories doesn't involve skill.</p><p></p><p>[USER=71699]@clearstream[/USER] -- you jump so quickly between word uses that your arguments end up largely as confusing gibberish. Skilled play is not skill, even though they share the word skill. Skill at making baskets is not skilled play in an RPG. The error you're making here is that you're putting telling a story as a goal, noting it takes skill, and then saying that this is skilled play. At no point do you look to see if it matches the given definitions of leveraging the system to achieve player goals within the scope of the game. If I'm just enforcing my story, even skillfully, I'm not leveraging the system to achieve player goals within the scope of the game. Thus, while this is a demonstration of skill, it's not skilled play.</p><p></p><p>And, for the record, I very much appreciate how stories are told. I'm a student of telling stories in many mediums. It's a craft. I endeavor to do my best and apply my learned skill when I run 5e, because my goal there is usually to deliver an entertaining story. I can, without much hubris, say that I am fairly skilled at doing this well, even at the necessary steps of hiding the Force necessary (or making it fun). I have not problem acknowledging that I am skillful here, but that I am not supporting skilled play in my game. Skilled play is not a catch-all that contains all efforts, it's a specific approach to games that delivers. Other approaches exist, and can also show skill in their application. There's a reason my definition of skilled play does not rely on the word skill at all.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Ovinomancer, post: 8299557, member: 16814"] TFW your mentions are all about other people using you as a proxy for there own argument instead of addressing your points which either already answer the question being asked or directly refute it. Like where I said that there's absolutely skill in telling stories, and mention examples of such, but say that the goal of telling good stories cuts against skilled play only to be mentioned as someone that thinks that telling stories doesn't involve skill. [USER=71699]@clearstream[/USER] -- you jump so quickly between word uses that your arguments end up largely as confusing gibberish. Skilled play is not skill, even though they share the word skill. Skill at making baskets is not skilled play in an RPG. The error you're making here is that you're putting telling a story as a goal, noting it takes skill, and then saying that this is skilled play. At no point do you look to see if it matches the given definitions of leveraging the system to achieve player goals within the scope of the game. If I'm just enforcing my story, even skillfully, I'm not leveraging the system to achieve player goals within the scope of the game. Thus, while this is a demonstration of skill, it's not skilled play. And, for the record, I very much appreciate how stories are told. I'm a student of telling stories in many mediums. It's a craft. I endeavor to do my best and apply my learned skill when I run 5e, because my goal there is usually to deliver an entertaining story. I can, without much hubris, say that I am fairly skilled at doing this well, even at the necessary steps of hiding the Force necessary (or making it fun). I have not problem acknowledging that I am skillful here, but that I am not supporting skilled play in my game. Skilled play is not a catch-all that contains all efforts, it's a specific approach to games that delivers. Other approaches exist, and can also show skill in their application. There's a reason my definition of skilled play does not rely on the word skill at all. [/QUOTE]
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