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<blockquote data-quote="Bedrockgames" data-source="post: 8301839" data-attributes="member: 85555"><p>i would disagree. I have seen enormous overlap in both the skill set, and in the type of player, who engages in the challenge of character optimization and mastery of the system during play. That said, there is some spill. Occasionally skilled play in the OSR sense requires some amount of mastering the system, but it is very much a different focus than you would find among say 3E players who know the system in and out and know how to make it work how they want during play. That system mastery skill set can be applied to skills in the environment. But I do think there is a difference between where that player is engaging their skill and where a player who is doing it in the OSR sense is engaging their skill (and one isn't better or worse than the other, and there is definitely blend----see my posts where I talk about my own games having system masters and players who are focused on skilled play: there is overlap). I think when people talk about system mastery they are talking about mastery of deep crunch, particularly in heavier and mid-crunch systems, where if you don't have it the difference is noticeable (so much so that I found you were effectively playing different games when I ran 3E, if i were playing with a group who had system mastery versus a group who didn't). </p><p></p><p>All that said, I think the kind of skilled play you have in the OSR, is a bit trickier to do in comprehensive systems like 3E, because those both require a level of system mastery to play the game skillfully, and they more mechanics for handling the character interacting with the environment; where a lot of OSR games tend to emphasis more direct interaction with the environment ideally less mediated by rolls (they are there, you just don't have this suite of skills like in 3E that handles so many of those aspects of play)</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Bedrockgames, post: 8301839, member: 85555"] i would disagree. I have seen enormous overlap in both the skill set, and in the type of player, who engages in the challenge of character optimization and mastery of the system during play. That said, there is some spill. Occasionally skilled play in the OSR sense requires some amount of mastering the system, but it is very much a different focus than you would find among say 3E players who know the system in and out and know how to make it work how they want during play. That system mastery skill set can be applied to skills in the environment. But I do think there is a difference between where that player is engaging their skill and where a player who is doing it in the OSR sense is engaging their skill (and one isn't better or worse than the other, and there is definitely blend----see my posts where I talk about my own games having system masters and players who are focused on skilled play: there is overlap). I think when people talk about system mastery they are talking about mastery of deep crunch, particularly in heavier and mid-crunch systems, where if you don't have it the difference is noticeable (so much so that I found you were effectively playing different games when I ran 3E, if i were playing with a group who had system mastery versus a group who didn't). All that said, I think the kind of skilled play you have in the OSR, is a bit trickier to do in comprehensive systems like 3E, because those both require a level of system mastery to play the game skillfully, and they more mechanics for handling the character interacting with the environment; where a lot of OSR games tend to emphasis more direct interaction with the environment ideally less mediated by rolls (they are there, you just don't have this suite of skills like in 3E that handles so many of those aspects of play) [/QUOTE]
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