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Message: <blockquote data-quote="clearstream" data-source="post: 8303738" data-attributes="member: 71699">That is true, and I would draw your attention to the features of NFL<ol> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">A single highly regulated mode of play (take a look at this rulebook <a href="https://operations.nfl.com/the-rules/2020-nfl-rulebook/" target="_blank">2020 NFL Rulebook | NFL Football Operations</a>)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">Comprehensive data is collected on every match and player (take a look at this dataset <a href="https://www.nfl.com/stats/player-stats/" target="_blank">NFL 2021 passing stats - Players | NFL.com</a>)</li> </ol>So the skill-construct for NFL is well defined and we can make predictive statements about what the factors of skill are and where players are on those. We can drop a random player into a random team and - so long as they have a decent dataset - predict the likely performance of that player in that team (caveated on group-effects upon performance).Here is a thought - say we thought of RPG as more like football games overall. NFL, Aussie Rules, Rugby, League and Soccer. They're all kind of similar - similar sized teams handle balls in regulated ways to get them through goalposts - but they're also quite different. Rugby favours a running game so quicker players are considered more skillful. I know little about NFL, but it seems to have more defined roles and in some roles being great at running won't help you. In Soccer, you can't pick up the ball and you aren't allowed to block tackle or ruck.Now as I said, compare RPG to that. How many distinct "regulations" are there for RPG: hundreds of different rulesets. Have we ever written out the "laws" in the exacting way that Fide have the laws of Chess (<a href="https://www.fide.com/FIDE/handbook/LawsOfChess.pdf)?" target="_blank">https://www.fide.com/FIDE/handbook/LawsOfChess.pdf)?</a> As an aside, I am making an assumption here that sport "laws" are more like written "principles or techniques" than game mechanics - sports mechanics are the laws of human neurophysiology or anatomy, and physics! Crucially, where is our rigorous dataset across thousands of players?EDIT On rereading your post I feel we are close on our views. I am adding that without the sort of data NFL collects, we have to be wary that our testaments to skill may speak more to what we value seeing in play - what we prefer and find satisfying - and the overall skill of our group + difficulty of tasks our DM presents us.EDIT EDIT And I can see how that caveat can feel undermining. Please take it that I am advocating humility and caution. Say ingenuity feels skillful to you, then we can both call that skillful and talk about forms we have seen it take, and learn from that. If we then try and club another player over the head with our belief in our true skillfulness... that is what I am against.</blockquote>

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