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Message: <blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 8305572" data-attributes="member: 82106">If nothing else came out of this thread, at least this was clearly articulated, lol. This is why I found Dungeon World particularly illuminating, in that PbtA clearly understands this and PbtA games pretty universally state their goals and principles outright in a concrete way. One which visibly and (usually) pretty seamlessly integrates with the mechanics governing play to form a complete whole.I agree with [USER=71699]@clearstream[/USER]'s observation of the existence of a 'circle' of participation, a community of play into which we join when we engage in a game where, ideally, there is a mutually shared agenda and principles of play. This is generally not too hard in organized sport, where each participant engages in the unspoken agreement to play their hardest to win. Not because winning is really the ultimate goal, but because it drives forward the real agenda of the game, which in the end is its participatory nature itself. RPGs are just a bit more murky than sports, you can easily get lost in the weeds, and there are a lot of possible approaches to a game, but ideally it works the same way. And that is why I personally also FAVOR those sorts of games which are explicit about it. Success is much more easily grasped. OTOH they require a bit more buy in. An OD&D game will work even with a trouble maker. There will be trouble, but that might even enhance the game if you're lucky. It will pretty much derail a DW game, and it need not happy advertently.</blockquote>

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