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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Manbearcat" data-source="post: 8306799" data-attributes="member: 6696971">I like your post here.  This is very insightful and applicable. Here is what I'll say on this.  Lets limit this exclusively to bouldering.  You have a (roughly) 15 ft high, graded route/obstacle on a wall or an underhang or a "soccer ball-esque object" or some combination thereof + a sequence of holds/moves that integrate into what is called "beta" (the prescribed moveset to ascend...but you have to (a) figure out this puzzle and (b) figure out if it works for you or if you need to adjust).  When you're (well, at least me) bouldering, you're typically doing one of three things:* Training - You're working on specific techniques and/or conditioning your skin and/or strengthening specific parts of key muscle groups (eg perhaps you're working on "crimpy" holds for fingers.  You're likely still working on ascending particular routes, but you're focus is "getting better and getting more comfortable/moralized with particular techniques/holds/obstacles ("problems" is the parlance climbers use)"; that is the Win Con.* Practice/Play Sessions - This is basically your standard deal.  Get warmed up.  Assess obstacles (again, they're called "problems" but I'm not going to try to afflict that jargon on folks here) and try to crack the beta or develop your own route if the beta doesn't work for you.  Then climb.  You work on obstacles that are at the apex of what you're capable of (V+ number between 0 and 9 at my gym but they conceptually go up to 17).  Its not just important to ascend obstacles of your apex grade, but to be able to ascend the variety of obstacles available (eg a V4 might be extremely easy for you because the setup plays to your strengths...whereas another V4 may be approaching virtual impossibility because it leverages your weaknesses).  So you're trying to (a) push your apex and (b) turn your weaknesses into strengths; that is the Win Con.* Horse - This is just what it sounds like.  Its the basketball version of Horse.  You pick an obstacle and intentionally "break the beta", coming up with odd sequences of moves to ascend the route that you can (hopefully) manage and it will (hopefully) challenge who you're competing against.  Obviously the Win Con here is having your opponent get the "E" (fail 5 times to match your sequence on a route you've ascended) before you do!Back to what you're proposing above:"Through your lense, say that (by analogy) you give up or eschew a good hold on a climb, to make your next six moves far more demanding. Could that come out of an agenda that says - it's not if I win overall that matters (e.g., reach the top of the boulder), it's the difficulty of each moment that I overcome... the expressed skill of each move that I make*."This happens mostly in the first mode of bouldering (Training) and the last mode (Horse).  Obviously Horse is a competitive game with a clear Win Con.  Training (as I've outlined above) also is competitive and has a Win Con; improve confidence/morale/poise, techniques, strength/coordination/dexterity/balance, skin conditioning, managing particular holds, improving transitioning from a hold/moveset to a divergent one.Honestly, practicing falling/landing is important as well (in Training).However, it is also fundamental to the second mode.  Because one of the primary Win Cons there is "push your apex."  Eschewing holds (or boulders with less difficult holds/sequences) for more difficult holds/sequences is fundamental to that Win Con.</blockquote>

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