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<blockquote data-quote="Aldarc" data-source="post: 8307920" data-attributes="member: 5142"><p>Umbran, your post is coming across to me as more adversarial than it needs to be, and it does feel like you are trying to escalate things more than I intended, and I am sorry if that wasn't clear in my own post. And maybe you may not feel that you are, and it's just how I am reading your post, but I want to be clear either way on that point. I have no intention of going toe-to-toe with a mod. </p><p></p><p>I am not proposing "ivory tower" discussions or suggesting that we divorce discussion from real world practice. I merely indicated <em>my preference</em> for discussing systems in terms of healthy, good faith play and their design principles. A lot of [USER=42582]@pemerton[/USER] or [USER=6696971]@Manbearcat[/USER]'s play reports are interesting to read, for me at least, because they do showcase in practice good faith play of their respective games and associated principles. </p><p></p><p>It feels to me like a bit of a truism to suggest that people are able to do with a game whatever they wish and that the system can't do anything to enforce it. I'm not sure if this has been under question. Bad faith play can obviously happen. Humans can also be dicks to each other in games. It's your table. But that is also part of the reason why I prefer talking about the system and its principles. Not because it's ivory tower or a spherical cow in a vacuum, but because we have the system and its principles is really the only shared point of data or frame of reference that we can discuss together as our people situation is not the same. That added complexity throws a potential wrench in a lot of things. </p><p></p><p>An appeal to human element of adversarial relationships and bad faith is <em>not always </em>an argument in favor of actual practice. In my experience, here it can quite nebulous and as much of a white room discussion of hypothetical bad faith play. Part of my own reticence for such white room talk of adversarial relationships or bad faith play stems from unproductive discussions that I had about Fate here with some posters. </p><p></p><p>I hope that clarifies my point.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Aldarc, post: 8307920, member: 5142"] Umbran, your post is coming across to me as more adversarial than it needs to be, and it does feel like you are trying to escalate things more than I intended, and I am sorry if that wasn't clear in my own post. And maybe you may not feel that you are, and it's just how I am reading your post, but I want to be clear either way on that point. I have no intention of going toe-to-toe with a mod. I am not proposing "ivory tower" discussions or suggesting that we divorce discussion from real world practice. I merely indicated [I]my preference[/I] for discussing systems in terms of healthy, good faith play and their design principles. A lot of [USER=42582]@pemerton[/USER] or [USER=6696971]@Manbearcat[/USER]'s play reports are interesting to read, for me at least, because they do showcase in practice good faith play of their respective games and associated principles. It feels to me like a bit of a truism to suggest that people are able to do with a game whatever they wish and that the system can't do anything to enforce it. I'm not sure if this has been under question. Bad faith play can obviously happen. Humans can also be dicks to each other in games. It's your table. But that is also part of the reason why I prefer talking about the system and its principles. Not because it's ivory tower or a spherical cow in a vacuum, but because we have the system and its principles is really the only shared point of data or frame of reference that we can discuss together as our people situation is not the same. That added complexity throws a potential wrench in a lot of things. An appeal to human element of adversarial relationships and bad faith is [I]not always [/I]an argument in favor of actual practice. In my experience, here it can quite nebulous and as much of a white room discussion of hypothetical bad faith play. Part of my own reticence for such white room talk of adversarial relationships or bad faith play stems from unproductive discussions that I had about Fate here with some posters. I hope that clarifies my point. [/QUOTE]
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