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<blockquote data-quote="clearstream" data-source="post: 8322167" data-attributes="member: 71699"><p>That (your post as a whole) is a wonderful explanation, thank you. I believe I can see a chink for quibbling, and this being Enworld I shall jump right through it!</p><p></p><p>Let's start by supposing we agree that characters don't experience anything. Only players do. There cannot strictly be abstraction from the experience of and life of the character, only abstraction from the experience abstracts and life abstracts of a character abstract. We could have a notion of degrees of abstraction, and equally we might argue that each abstraction is direct because again, we can't process any thought through the mind of the character, only through our own.</p><p></p><p>If right, that may suggest that our choices are as to how we represent our abstractions, not whether we abstract. We're already committed to abstraction. When it comes to choices about how to represent our abstractions, you've neatly describe a description-in-language model.</p><p>Another faculty we can call on is visual processing. For me, looking at a sketch speedily evokes the landscape. Additionally, the artifact helps with consistency (when we return to this space, weeks later, the map will be our mnemonic.) As well as words, our symbolic representation can include drawings, and possibly numbers. These can be compact and expressive, and it seems highly viable to resist a claim that only words will do (I am not saying you are making that claim). Anything that serves as a touchstone for the imagined, can do.</p><p></p><p>Where you discuss forgetfulness, that is where there is scope for being reminded. Oh, that corner was here, I recall now very vividly the struggle we had with the ghoul right over there. And so forth. The idea I'm putting perhaps needs better development, but I'll leave it there because I hope the direction of thought is clear enough, and it will be interesting to hear counter-quibbles <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="clearstream, post: 8322167, member: 71699"] That (your post as a whole) is a wonderful explanation, thank you. I believe I can see a chink for quibbling, and this being Enworld I shall jump right through it! Let's start by supposing we agree that characters don't experience anything. Only players do. There cannot strictly be abstraction from the experience of and life of the character, only abstraction from the experience abstracts and life abstracts of a character abstract. We could have a notion of degrees of abstraction, and equally we might argue that each abstraction is direct because again, we can't process any thought through the mind of the character, only through our own. If right, that may suggest that our choices are as to how we represent our abstractions, not whether we abstract. We're already committed to abstraction. When it comes to choices about how to represent our abstractions, you've neatly describe a description-in-language model. Another faculty we can call on is visual processing. For me, looking at a sketch speedily evokes the landscape. Additionally, the artifact helps with consistency (when we return to this space, weeks later, the map will be our mnemonic.) As well as words, our symbolic representation can include drawings, and possibly numbers. These can be compact and expressive, and it seems highly viable to resist a claim that only words will do (I am not saying you are making that claim). Anything that serves as a touchstone for the imagined, can do. Where you discuss forgetfulness, that is where there is scope for being reminded. Oh, that corner was here, I recall now very vividly the struggle we had with the ghoul right over there. And so forth. The idea I'm putting perhaps needs better development, but I'll leave it there because I hope the direction of thought is clear enough, and it will be interesting to hear counter-quibbles :) [/QUOTE]
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