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<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 8678126" data-attributes="member: 4937">I mean, ok...&nbsp; I guess.I don't really understand his premises about what he claims 'characters' or 'players' want, but I do feel like he's making an argument here for high illusionism where he tricks the players into believing that they made choices and were creative and really, they went along with the rails.&nbsp;&nbsp; The metaphor appears to be like those in an apparently open world game like 'Journey' or 'Half-Life 2' where when you are first playing the game you feel like you could have done anything and you actually came up with clever things to do, and as long as you stay on the path you felt like you made your own story, but really there is just one story that everyone is supposed to have because everything was on rails.And I don't really dig that.What I try to do is more like &quot;Narrow-Broad-Narrow&quot; where I may have &quot;doors&quot; that I am expecting the players to pass through to advance to new parts of the stories, but there really isn't a water sluice or rail between doors and I legitimately don't know how the players will get from one door to the other.&nbsp; I sprinkle a lot of clues around so no one gets lost in the sandbox, but sometimes the players do things I never anticipated.&nbsp; And sometimes they exit out of doors I never expected them to take, and I have to invent a whole new area of the story I didn't anticipate.&nbsp; Occasionally I've had them find doors that let them skip areas that I had planned for and go straight to parts of the story I thought were more remote. When I put PCs in the sandbox, I don't see this big disconnect between the character's motivation to get to the next door quickly and efficiently and the player's motivation to do that same thing.&nbsp; There are obviously obstacles in the sandbox, but I don't really think of it as my job to ensure the players don't bypass the obstacles because the obstacles aren't really the story anyway.&nbsp;&nbsp; But to the extent that wandering in the sandbox is story, I am perfectly fine with the players adding their own wrinkles and twists and engaging the setting it in ways I never expected.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 8678126, member: 4937"] I mean, ok... I guess. I don't really understand his premises about what he claims 'characters' or 'players' want, but I do feel like he's making an argument here for high illusionism where he tricks the players into believing that they made choices and were creative and really, they went along with the rails. The metaphor appears to be like those in an apparently open world game like 'Journey' or 'Half-Life 2' where when you are first playing the game you feel like you could have done anything and you actually came up with clever things to do, and as long as you stay on the path you felt like you made your own story, but really there is just one story that everyone is supposed to have because everything was on rails. And I don't really dig that. What I try to do is more like "Narrow-Broad-Narrow" where I may have "doors" that I am expecting the players to pass through to advance to new parts of the stories, but there really isn't a water sluice or rail between doors and I legitimately don't know how the players will get from one door to the other. I sprinkle a lot of clues around so no one gets lost in the sandbox, but sometimes the players do things I never anticipated. And sometimes they exit out of doors I never expected them to take, and I have to invent a whole new area of the story I didn't anticipate. Occasionally I've had them find doors that let them skip areas that I had planned for and go straight to parts of the story I thought were more remote. When I put PCs in the sandbox, I don't see this big disconnect between the character's motivation to get to the next door quickly and efficiently and the player's motivation to do that same thing. There are obviously obstacles in the sandbox, but I don't really think of it as my job to ensure the players don't bypass the obstacles because the obstacles aren't really the story anyway. But to the extent that wandering in the sandbox is story, I am perfectly fine with the players adding their own wrinkles and twists and engaging the setting it in ways I never expected. [/QUOTE]

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