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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Thunderfoot" data-source="post: 4960746" data-attributes="member: 34175">Until he started describing your actions, instead of allowing you to do that, I thought it was awesome...There is a fine line between storytelling games, role playing and tactical battle simulations.  The old 2e crowd had moved the OD&D and 1e crowd away from the latter and towards the other two, culminating in a game system (White Wolf's RP systems) that was nearly exclusively story telling. (kind of like what these folks are doing.)3.x started the shift back the other way and 4e is close to what OD&D originally was, expanded description battle text with small linking sub-plot.I think the "Say Yes" motivation of 4e is the suck...ONLY because it allows players to alter events outside the scope of DM vision for his campaign world (if things go horribly wrong.)  The say yes with qualifications and the ability to say no is a little more my speed, but then I like expressive story and low magic.  It's a style thing.  I have no doubt that nor illusions that my hobby is mostly populated by "hack n' slay and haul it away" style players, it's where we came from, and is going to THE integral part of the rules and play forever as far as I can tell.  But, I have never had a player tell me, after playing in my games that they didn't like the more evolved story (NOT what the DM in this example was doing, mind you but a little more book-like.)  or the grittiness that made the campaign "feel" more real.I like combat, but it has it's place.  I like magic, it has it's place.  I think that magic items should be rare and wondrous, not on an equipment list, that armor should protect you, not make your "Avatar" look cool and that you should work for your GOLD PIECES.  4e for has setting failures that get in the way and are just too frustrating to try and write around.  The rules are built in a manner that dictates a pretty much singular style of play.  It's fun, for an occasional one off (at least for me) but campaigns are a lot harder to manage under the guidelines of "realistic, low fantasy".Through all the edition wars crap (and it is crap) I have never said 4e was bad, it's a great game, but it has more "beer & pretzels" qualities than I can use for my style.  A lot of folks feel the same way, BUT have a hard time coming to grips with the fact that it's THEIR problem, not the system's.  I am under no such delusions.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" /></blockquote>

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