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Message: <blockquote data-quote="ryryguy" data-source="post: 4895595" data-attributes="member: 64945">(Teleported over from old thread)ExploderWizard -I'm glad I was able to help tease out the distinction between roleplaying and storytelling as you see it.Let me suggest that, using the definitions you have in mind, roleplaying and storytelling could come into conflict, but they don't have to do so. (Much like the perennial debate (seen more often on the WotC boards than here, I think) over whether character optimization and roleplaying are in conflict.) In fact, I'd say that good storytelling techniques can strengthen and support roleplaying in a game that is primarily about roleplaying.The thing is that even roleplaying strongly conceived, as "I choose my character's actions based only on my concept of the character", does not exist in a vaccuum. You're basing choices off motivation, but the choices are still constrained and informed by the shared fiction of the game as established by the DM and the other players. Forget storytelling or narrative or plot here - by "shared fiction" I just mean the situation in the fictional game environment. Choosing whether to spend your loot on orphans or booze is still informed by whether or not you have loot, whether or not there are orphans, whether or not there is booze. Those are all things that come out of the shared fiction. If you're in some theocracy where booze is forbidden, your character's overwhelming desire to drink might lead you to choose to go someplace else or to set up a still. But you can't choose to go get drunk in the corner tavern, because there is no corner tavern. Your choice is constrained. But have you stopped roleplaying? Not at all. To the contrary, your response to the constraints can lead to deeper and more creative roleplaying.So, I think that there are two levels on which storytelling techniques might also provide constraints which actually improve roleplaying.The first might be termed a "soft" style, where the DM sets up the situation in the game world with storytelling and narrative in mind. Perhaps the DM guided the party to the booze-free theocracy, or even decided that a liquor taboo was one of the precepts of the theocratic religion, because of your character's inclination to drink. He sees that the situation will promote interesting conflicts. He introduces a character of a priest who is a reformed drunk, to serve as a foil for your character. He sets up a moment where that NPC is in danger of falling off the wagon, but you could prevent that by swearing off booze yourself. The DM is in no way telling your player what to do; you're free to decide how your character reacts. But if it's worked out well, the DM has provided you with a great opportunity to further define and develop your character, and maybe even shaped it into a narrative climax that increases the impact.(One of the examples in the article, that of the dream sequence, is a good example of this too - the player still has total control over his character and concept, but the dream sequence puts him on the spot a little bit and dares him to sharpen that concept, offers him an opportunity to develop the character.)The second style might be called a "hard" style, although that might have some unfair connotations. But in this style, you as the player do willingly subordinate your character concept in order to further a narrative goal. Your character loves booze, but because the group has been developing a theme around orphans, you go along with the orphan plan. (OK, this orphans and booze thing is getting really strained now.  ) Sometimes this might mean that things are somewhat predetermined (though not "scripted") - there's a fight you know you're going to lose, as in the mind flayer attack example in the article.EW, you've made it clear that you don't consider this style to be "wrong" or evil. But let me suggest that there's no bright line here where once you've chosen story over concept, roleplaying is now dead and gone, and you can never get back again. You as the player might choose orphans over booze in the interest of the story, but that doesn't stop you from roleplaying your character grumbling about it the whole while. Also, I think that even the most purist of roleplayers does subordinate choices to other considerations at least some of the time. When you're coming up with characters and say, "The group needs a healer? OK, I'll be a cleric" you've done so. When you think your jerk rogue would definitely take the chance to kill the paladin's puppy but you decide not to do it in the interests of player harmony, you've done it. Doing it for the sake of story is not really any different from that point of view.</blockquote>

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