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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 4897051" data-attributes="member: 22779">But, that's not what I said.When you are a player, if you cannot, at any point in time, exert any editorial control over the setting without the game stopping being a role playing game and turning into a story telling game, then you are forced to be a passive consumer.  You can't be anything else.If you cannot even go to the bathroom without the DM's explicit consent, then how can you possibly have any real freedom of actions?  In EW and Ariosto's definition of a role playing game, where the player may not, at any time, change the setting, the player cannot perform any action without the DM's say so.Try this as a thought experiment.  Can a player in EW's definition of a role playing game enter a room without a DM present?  I don't think so.  He cannot say whether the door is locked or not.  He cannot even determine that the room is there in the first place.Even the wizard who can create matter can only do so with the DM's explicit approval.  After all, how did I get spell components?  How did I get the spell in the first place?  Now, in EW's view, so long as the DM has absolute control over everything in the game world, and the players can only react to his descriptions, then we are all playing a role playing game.To me, that's a tad restrictive.  While it's true I may not be actively role playing when exercising editorial control (although, if you look back at my diamond eating dog example, that's a REALLY fine hair to split - I'm switching back and forth in the same lines sometimes), I would not say that any game that allows players to have editorial control over the game is no longer a role playing game.  Heck, like I said, 3e as Action Points.  Exploder Wizard, is it your contention that anyone playing in Eberron in 3e is no longer engaging in a role playing game?  That Eberron turns 3e D&D into a story writing game?  After all Eberron explicitly allows players to have some editorial control through Action Points.  They can decide not to fail a roll at almost any time, they can jump farther, attack more, retain cast spells, and IIRC even effect small changes in the scene.  Does that mean if I'm playing in Eberron I'm no longer playing a role playing game?This is why I'm having such a hard time with EW's definition.  It's far and away too restrictive.</blockquote>

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