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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 4898047" data-attributes="member: 22779">The thing is though, those elements are not exclusive.  You can have games where the players have limited editorial control (Action Points) while at the same time playing a role and making decisions based on that role.Now, some decisions you as the player make might not be based on that role at the time, but, many of them will.My single point of contention here is that Exploder Wizard, and I believe Ariosto as well, contend that as soon as you can make any editioral change in the setting as a player, you are no longer playing a role playing game, but are now playing a story telling game.Bascically, this definition excludes the vast majority of rpg's out there, other than pre-3e D&D from the definition of role playing game, since almost every rpg from the beginning of 3e era onward, and certainly many from before, allow players limited editorial control over the setting.Again, what's the point of defining role playing game in such a way that it excludes the majority of what pretty much everyone calls a role playing game?AFAIK, no one calls Hungry Hungry Hippos a roleplaying game, nor does it bill itself as one.  There's absolutely no confusion.  Advanced Squad Leader, while probably complicated enough to be an RPG, also doesn't bill itself as such and I don't think anyone would be confused enough to mistake it as one.One danger here that I'm seeing is that editorial control is being equated with narrativism.  It's not.  Nar gaming in the GNS model is a totally different animal.  Being able to effect changes in the setting by spending resources available to all players is not an exclusively Narrativist (again GNS meaning) element.  Editorial control appears in just about every RPG out there to some degree.</blockquote>

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