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Message: <blockquote data-quote="ST" data-source="post: 4908765" data-attributes="member: 14053">Sorry to multipost, I just find this an interesting topic. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />Okay, bang on this and tell me if I've missed something. I believe as it's being interpreted, if you're playing a roleplaying game, this exchange would be verboten as it's got storytelling gaming all over it:Player: "I think I remember there's a member of my thieves' guild working in this town. I pay a Fate point."GM: "Yep, Azur the One-Legged runs a fence here, is what you've heard."And this would be okay:Player: "Hmm, this town seems pretty busy, I wonder if my guild's got their fingers in."GM: "Make a streetwise check." (It succeeds) "Yep, Azur the One-Legged is the name you get."Would this be legit?Player: "Hmm, I can't remember if the guild set up shop here or not..."GM: (Spends 1 Fate point from the PC's total, without telling them) "Actually you're in luck -- Azur the One-Legged seems to be operating here. You recognize his mark from back in the day."In that last example, the PCs have Fate point totals but the GM never told the players they exist, and he decides to spend them based on when he thinks the player's musing or idea would be interesting. It's still a metagame mechanic, but the players aren't aware of it. Is the fact that the mechanic is removed from player use enough to turn this back into a roleplaying game?The thing is, I feel like you can turn any of those exchanges from one case to another based on how your group operates, independent of the rules or definitions. Okay, it's not okay for a player to say that something is true in the game world... can they muse that they sure wonder if it was true OOC? Or investigate whether or not it's true IC? At that point, it's the GM's decision in a "strict roleplaying game" whether or not that's true... so it seems like "Player affecting something outside of their PC's skin" is a pretty nebulous category.</blockquote>

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