Str and Sport!

[Tonguez]

This is a rant rather than a rules question so I guess it goes here

Recently I had the Level 3 PCs go through some Sports events including wrestling, jumping, swimming and climbing events. This required the PCs to make opposed skill checks in order to set their pace and position in the race

The problem was that one of the PCs was a Str 20 Half-Orc barbarian and with all the above skills based on Str the huge hulking brute absolutely dominated every event. I even had a PC with a Swim Feat (homebrew feat which reduces the swim penalties and ups swim speed) and even they were a distant second

Anyway how would you go about handling sports events in such a way that the Elf swimmer has a chance against the Str 20 Barbarian?

 

[WayneLigon]

This is a rant rather than a rules question so I guess it goes here

Recently I had the Level 3 PCs go through some Sports events including wrestling, jumping, swimming and climbing events. This required the PCs to make opposed skill checks in order to set their pace and position in the race

The problem was that one of the PCs was a Str 20 Half-Orc barbarian and with all the above skills based on Str the huge hulking brute absolutely dominated every event. I even had a PC with a Swim Feat (homebrew feat which reduces the swim penalties and ups swim speed) and even they were a distant second

Anyway how would you go about handling sports events in such a way that the Elf swimmer has a chance against the Str 20 Barbarian?

For everything you mentioned save the swimming contest, he should expect to dominate them unless they have some sort of handicapping scheme in place.

I'd probably look at the homebrewed Swim feat and see if it's worth having, in light of this. Since it's a feat, I'm of the mind that it should eliminate swim penalties and provide a speed in water equal to or maybe a little slower than an aquatic elf.

Did either of them have actual ranks in Swim?

Swimming is a hard one; strength definately plays a large part in it (as well as Con), but it also has to do with your body type. A sleekly muscled elf, probably with very little body hair as elves are commonly poetrayed, should cut through the water significantly faster than a broad-shouldered hairy half-orc.

 

[Tonguez]

Improved Swim Feat
Allows the character to move at 3/4 of their speed as a move action or their full speed as a full-round action. The character does not need to make checks to swim in calm water and the DC to swim rough water is reduced one rank (Rough water DC 10 & Stormy water DC 15) The character does not take damage due to deep water

I agree that the Orc should have dominated the wrestling but looking at rl swimmers, runners and climbers my eyes would suggest that the muscled up hulking brute should not dominate these events against a resonable fit and welltoned competitor.

 

[freyar]

Don't swimmers actually usually have pretty large upper bodies?

I'd also say that this falls into the issue of CON vs STR, at least if you start getting into distance swimming. Maybe the swim checks made after an hour of swimming (to avoid nonlethal damage) should use the CON bonus rather than STR.

A possible house rule: give "armor check" penalties for speed swimming based on body type...

 

[freyar]

Just realized something: how did the elf swimmer not win with that Improved Swim feat (I'm assuming calm water)? If their land speeds are the same (I think that's true for unencumbered elves and half-orcs), then the elf seems to have a big advantage --- never risking failing a swim check and moving at full speed each round. Is this because of the barbarian's fast movement class feature? Maybe that's the problem.

 

[Tonguez]

The Race consisted of three of a swim out from shore to a rock 100ft off shore and back. This required three rolls at the Start, Turn Around (at Rock) and Home Stretch.

The Half-Orc Barbarian has Spd 40 and thus Swim Speed 20. He also had 6 ranks in swim (+11 total). With him having the +11 he basically powered through the water. The Elf kept pace for the first to legs of the race but was left behind on the home straight. That was okay.

But when the half-orc went on and won every competition entered that became a concern! Oh Well

 

[Pedestrian]

I honestly don't see them problem. You mentioned that the hulking Barbarian has ranks in all those skills, as well as the 20 Strength, and so could not unfairly be labelled as something of an athlete. It's hardly surprising that he smashed the opposition.

 

[freyar]

The Race consisted of three of a swim out from shore to a rock 100ft off shore and back. This required three rolls at the Start, Turn Around (at Rock) and Home Stretch.

The Half-Orc Barbarian has Spd 40 and thus Swim Speed 20. He also had 6 ranks in swim (+11 total). With him having the +11 he basically powered through the water. The Elf kept pace for the first to legs of the race but was left behind on the home straight. That was okay.

But when the half-orc went on and won every competition entered that became a concern! Oh Well

I'm sorry, I still don't quite get it. With your Improved Swim, shouldn't the elf have swim speed 30? Then the elf should make it in about 7 rounds (b/c doesn't need to make swim checks). The half-orc couldn't have made it in under 10 rounds. So I'm confused here.

 

[mmadsen]

Recently I had the Level 3 PCs go through some Sports events including wrestling, jumping, swimming and climbing events. This required the PCs to make opposed skill checks in order to set their pace and position in the race.

It should be no problem that the burly half-orc won at wrestling. That only makes sense.

Performing well in the other events -- jumping, swimming, and climbing -- should be a function of relative strength -- strength over weight -- and there D&D lets us down. One simple fix is to view Dexterity as Agility, which is largely a function of relative strength, and to switch those skills to be Dex-based. After all, our gracile elf should be good at jumping, swimming, and climbing.

 

[Victim]

On the other hand, the fact that STR does add Climb, Jump, and Swim could be taken to mean that the stat includes both raw power and athleticism. If Dex can include whole body agility, reaction time, and fine motor control, then surely strength can be defined broadly as well. I have no problem with this half orc winning.

That being said, I can see applying a size penalty to some of those checks to avoid ninja elephants.