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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Rilvar" data-source="post: 5057547" data-attributes="member: 67519">Hi, my group and I play D&D 4E, have been playing since 2E.  Generally we are happy with the new system, but my group tends to like two game elements: adventuring/hack n slash/role playing type gaming and strategy type gaming with armies, political factions, diplomacy, and economy management.  Through the years I've tended to lean on the D&D rules system for the former and ad-hoc the later, which has worked out fairly well until 4E cut out a lot of the out of combat game elements.So I've been thinking about adding a game within a game so to speak.  A side game similar to the Dawn of Worlds concept except with shorter turns that runs within my campaign.  The players would control manors/guilds/organizations and can work to defeat rival groups, build strongholds, and generally expand their influence through the world.  Since the game runs within my campaign, what they do in one can influence the other, say going on an adventure to acquire something for their guilds, or raising an army to conquer a nearby enemy stronghold so they can use it as a home base to launch adventures.  I'm looking for anyone who has ever come across a rules system for a game like this that could be incorporated into a traditional rpg game.  Any ideas would be appreciated.Thanks</blockquote>