streamlined D20 for diff. genre's?

[jfiz]

Folks,

I have an interest in a streamlined version of the D20 system for use in various genre's, such as fantasy, espionage, cyberpunk, etc. Right now, my focus is primarily on DnD esque fantasy.

My regular gaming group is quite large, and I've found the DnD 3E incarnation to be pretty cumbersome for this group, mechanically speaking.

I am considering purchasing Mutants and Masterminds. I would like your opinions and insight as to whether the mechanics presented in M&M could be easily adopted and work well for genre's other than supers.

Will the M&M ruleset work well for DnD-ish fantasy, cyberpunk, espionage, and other genres?

How difficult would say it would be to adjust the M&M system for any of these genres/settings?

Is there a magic system of some sort, or can one be derived from the M&M ruleset?

Would the stream-lined mechanics in M&M prove helpful in lightening the load for my large group (usually 7 to 8 players plus the GM)?

I would appreciate your insight, especially if you have experience with using the M&M system in similar fashion. Also, if you could suggest other options for a streamlined D20 like system that you've used and would recommend, please fill me in on those as well?

Thank You,

 

[whydirt]

I'd say that MnM should work great as a cross-genre system. You might want to write up some rough guidelines on how you want to limit powers for each type of game, but since all of its powers are effect-based, MnM really shines in being creative with its customization.

 

[Voneth]

D & D fantasy is probably the hardest to emulate since a lot of people are very specific in what they want to see. On the flip side, MnM rules book strength is its sidebars which over up optional rules to bring the game back to regular d20 or push it further out there.

• Don't like the Damage Save, use the hit point rules instead
• Don't like characters that improve in combat even if they didn't fight for a whole level, simply don't buy more BAB, or switch to the "Combat Skils" option.
• As a GM, you want to create funky weapons or magic items without much brain sweat, use the standard Device rules

Some quick suggestions on how to make a lower level Fantasy game.

• Set the PC level to PL 5
• Allow no Super Attributes or severly cap them (I run a space opera game and SAs are limited to 2 levels)
• Mundane weapons and armor cost no character points to own
• Have most powers be temporary in effect and duration, only allow magic items to have constant effects
• Make skills cheaper, perhaps 1 character point buys 2 or 3 skill ranks
• Use the hit point rules
• Check out www.greenronin.com, to access their MnM fourm, this question comes up regulary and a lot of people have more suggestions, most of them playtested for a few months now.
• Use a homemade flaw called Backfire. A mage has to make a Power Check, DC 10+level of magic being used. If he fails something bad happens. This allows for minor magics all day, but big ones might be dangerous

 

[jfiz]

cool!

Thanks for the replies guys...I have also in the interim visited the green ronin forums, and I have found several useful posts there regarding adapting M&M to a fantasy game.

With those suggestions/house rules/etc. plus what you guys have posted, I'm pretty excited about trying out M&M for my use as a cross-genre, streamlined OGL rules system.

One note; you mentioned using the HP rules instead of the damage save as a possible option; the HP system is one of the things I have problems with in DnD 3E; I don't like the abstraction, and it seems characters of reasonable level (say 7th or so) have way too many hitpoints, causing combat to drag on ineccessantly.

Between HP's, AoO's, variable damage, Armor Class (and armor as AC, I like damage reduction armor better), not to mention some out of whack feats...I find that combat in mid-level games with DnD 3E are just too encumbering for my large regular gaming group.

I'm going to track down and purchase M&M hopefully this weekend, as it sounds like it will be a great help in streamlining the system for our use.

Thanks Again for the advice and pointers!

 

[Voneth]

Well, then if you are looking to streamline HP out of the game, then you will like the Damage Save system, it is more elegent, though it does involve two dice rolls. (Again, MnM offers optional rules for simpling the roll, making the DCs easier or even randomizing the DC if you like.)

Truth be told, the thing that makes the Damage Save, plus the Hero Points make things interesting. Like in the comic books, People can go down and get right back up (though if you are in dire straits, the Hero Point is better off just keeping you stablized.)

It does appear that MnM is going to be a system that meets your needs, one word of advice though.

Go through the power list very thoughly and reflect on how that power may effect your low level game. Without the comic book world of "Ah, Ha! I knew you would do that, I am a mastermind villian of course!" It gets hard to justify that you always have something to attack the Incorpreal character. Super Speed is one that may not fit either.

Then again, if you can talk your group into being more of a Final Fantasy/Exalted frame of mind, you are all set.

 

[Broken Fang]

I've also been thinking about using MnM for a fantasy setting. I have to try and find the book as well but I have read good things from here and the GR web site. Let me know what you think once you get it...it will be a month or so till I can probably pick it up (looking at new car payment).

 

[jfiz]

powers, etc.

Ok, with the powers...while I haven't seen the book just yet, my hunch is that I will be culling the powers list to remove most of the "supers" powers/feel. My group prefers more of a traditional sword and sorcery type of game, so I'm thinking that might take some work to reflect.

I may create a new power (similar to one posted by a member at the GR forums) that will provide a spell system for magic wielding characters. While I probably won't pull in the DnD spells cart-blanche, I may reference another source for pre-defined spells.

If I decide I don't like that option however, I may come up with a power+stunt-feats system to allow spells to be created based on "modes and elements", i.e. modes = control, creation, transformation, conjuration, etc. and elements = some expansion on the 4 basic elements. I haven't worked out the details, but I might draw inspiration from a Risus fan-supplement titled "Risus Incantatio" for how to work that out.

I may need to tie in skills to such a magic system, though I won't if I don't have to; I'm thinking I'll need a way to associate a DC with each spell and incorporate a roll to successfully cast, where the degree of success could be compared to target(s) saving throw rolls...

But as I mentioned since I haven't seen the book just yet, I will need to spend some time with it to put together something that will meet my needs.

I'll post back here once I've gotten the book with what I come up with for options.

Thanks Again,

 

[Voneth]

Since you don't have the book yet, you might not be aware of MnM Sorcery power. The power provides a sidebar that offers between 4 to 10 powers for 7 different catagories (Control, Defensive, Divination, Illusion, Offensive, Transformation, Transporation).

The player choses a super power from each catagory and thus has them as a "spell" up to his level of Sorcery and automaticly have the Power Souce of Mystical. You can fatigue yourself to cast any power on the list (fatigue can be nullified with a Hero Point) Any powers not on the list are by GM discretion.

Some advantages and disavantages you can buy with Sorcery are: Astral Travel, Required Concentration, Excluded Catagory, Material Ward, and Rote (you can cast only your seven spells)

MnM allows you to use other advantages and disadvatages with GM approval. Putting your spells in a spellbook that can get lost or stolen would be a Device and if you wanted a DnD feel to your magic, you can buy half your levels with Degrade, which reduces the power level of your spells with each use until you get to the lower levels that you bought for full price.

 

[Broken Fang]

Voneth - How do you like the damage save in MnM? I have been reading the Green Ronin web site and really like the sound of them game (no classes, hit points, etc). Do you think it would work well in a fantasy style campaign? What problems or concerns would you have if you were using MnM for a fantasty setting?

I want characters to have skills (use the 1 point = 3 skill points house rule) and be more dependent on themselves as opposed to items. How easy is it to make up mosters or other races (goblins, elves, etc)? I would like to make Sorcery like CoC (find ancient tome...study it...gain spell). Can a roll be added to make it dangerous to cast using a skill (damage roll?) I also want it so anyone can learn it...with the material and time. Also it sounds like with the Device option I could make the artifact style items I want to use...very rare! What do you think of these ideas and do you think it would require lots of tweaking with the rules?

 

[jfiz]

Voneth, only 7 spells?

Voneth,

Sorcery in M&M sounds like a nifty option....the one problem I see at this point as in your description, it sounds like a sorceror can only ever "know" 7 spells.

In my home-brew fantasy setting that I hope to use, I had envisioned powerful journey-men mages who would have mastered a large number of spells over time....is there a way to adjust the 7 spell total with M&M Sorcery?

note that in my world setting, such mages are truely rare, though it's certain possible for a PC to play a mage and over a long campaign they should possibly gain a fairly moderate number of "known" spells, certainly more than 7, I'm thinking.

The good news is that it's starting to sound like I may not have to do quite as much work to get the system setup to run smoothly and in the fashion that I envision!

Thanks again,