Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Strength bows?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="El Mahdi" data-source="post: 6539271" data-attributes="member: 59506"><p>Sounds great, except for...as said before...drawing a bow does not require high overall body strength...which is what the D&D strength score is...and it still bases extra to-hit and damage on the character's strength, and not that of the bow.</p><p></p><p>All that's required to use such a bow is "specialized strength"; a strength developed in the muscles needed to draw a high-pull bow, and ONLY the muscles needed to draw a high-pull bow. The rest of the body's muscles are superfluous for using a bow.</p><p></p><p>Just because English Longbowmen used bows with draws as high as 150 to 200 pounds, does not mean they all had at least a 12 Strength or higher, or a crazy high strength like 15 for your Greatbow. Longbowmen, not being primarily melee fighters, likely had strength scores closer to the average strength of men in general: Strength 10 or 11 in D&D terms. They may have been in a little better shape, being part of a militia, but even that might only give a bump of one or two to their average strength. So, with an average strength among English Longbowmen around 10 to 12, just as many English Longbowmen had strengths below those numbers as those who had higher numbers.</p><p></p><p>That would mean that according to your strength requirements, a significant portion of England's Longbowmen weren't physically strong enough to do what they actually did in battle after battle, and successful strikes by them wouldn't do the amount of damage they were known for.</p><p></p><p>I guess the history books are wrong...</p><p></p><p></p><p>So, to do this right, require either a Feat or class build/archetype, OR the Strength requirement, and give the bow an independent strength score (not the character's strength score). This way, both characters that spend the years of training (Feat or class build/archetype), and characters that already have a high strength can utilize them, and you get the higher bonus to hit and damage.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Feats (adapted from [MENTION=8313]cperkins[/MENTION] )</p><p></p><p>MIGHTY ARCHER</p><p>Thanks to extensive practice with powerful bows (Mighty property), you gain the following benefits:</p><p>• You can utilize bows that you have proficiency with, that have the Mighty property with a STR score of up to 18.</p><p></p><p>MIGHTY ARCHER EXPERT</p><p> Thanks to extensive practice with mighty bows, you gain the following benefits:</p><p>• You can utilize bows that you have proficiency with, that have the Mighty property with a STR score of up to 20.</p><p>• You gain an extra attack when using the attack action on your turn for a ranged attack with shortbow or longbow that you have proficiency with, in addition to any extra attacks provided by your class.</p><p>• Being within 5 feet of a hostile creature doesn’t impose disadvantage on your ranged attack rolls.</p><p>• Before you make a ranged attack, you can choose to take a - 5 penalty to the attack roll. If the attack hits, you add +10 to the attack’s damage.</p><p></p><p></p><p>WEAPON PROPERTIES</p><p>New Property</p><p> Mighty. A shortbow or longbow with this property has it's own STR score. A character must either possess proficiency in bows with this property, or have an equal or higher STR score, to utilize them. You may add the STR bonus of your bow (if higher), instead of your own DEX bonus, to attack and damage rolls when attacking with a mighty bow. You may not add your own STR bonus (if higher than the bow) to attack and damage rolls. The range of any shortbow or longbow with this property is increased to 200/800. Damage dice are increased from 1d6 to 2d4, or 1d8 to 2d6. The price of shortbows or longbows with the Mighty property increase by 25gp for bows with a STR score of 12, with an additional 10gp for every two points of STR above that (+25gp for STR 12, +35gp for STR 14, +45gp for STR 16, +55gp for STR 18, +65gp for STR 20, etc.).</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Some quotes about longbow training:</p><p></p><p>From the Historum History Discussion Forum <a href="http://historum.com/" target="_blank">http://historum.com/</a> and this thread in particular <a href="http://historum.com/medieval-byzantine-history/24934-how-did-english-longbowmen-train.html" target="_blank">http://historum.com/medieval-byzantine-history/24934-how-did-english-longbowmen-train.html</a></p><p></p><p>(The original site this quote is attributed to is no longer accessible.)</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>From Wikipedia - English Longbow - attributed to Dr. A.J. Stirland. Raising the Dead: the Skeleton Crew of Henry VIII's Great Ship the Mary Rose. (Chichester 2002).</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Also from Wikipedia - Acromion/Os acromiale:</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>And Wikipedia again, but attributed to Trevelyan, G. M. (2008). English Social History – A Survey of Six Centuries – Chaucer to Queen Victoria. Longman.:</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="El Mahdi, post: 6539271, member: 59506"] Sounds great, except for...as said before...drawing a bow does not require high overall body strength...which is what the D&D strength score is...and it still bases extra to-hit and damage on the character's strength, and not that of the bow. All that's required to use such a bow is "specialized strength"; a strength developed in the muscles needed to draw a high-pull bow, and ONLY the muscles needed to draw a high-pull bow. The rest of the body's muscles are superfluous for using a bow. Just because English Longbowmen used bows with draws as high as 150 to 200 pounds, does not mean they all had at least a 12 Strength or higher, or a crazy high strength like 15 for your Greatbow. Longbowmen, not being primarily melee fighters, likely had strength scores closer to the average strength of men in general: Strength 10 or 11 in D&D terms. They may have been in a little better shape, being part of a militia, but even that might only give a bump of one or two to their average strength. So, with an average strength among English Longbowmen around 10 to 12, just as many English Longbowmen had strengths below those numbers as those who had higher numbers. That would mean that according to your strength requirements, a significant portion of England's Longbowmen weren't physically strong enough to do what they actually did in battle after battle, and successful strikes by them wouldn't do the amount of damage they were known for. I guess the history books are wrong... So, to do this right, require either a Feat or class build/archetype, OR the Strength requirement, and give the bow an independent strength score (not the character's strength score). This way, both characters that spend the years of training (Feat or class build/archetype), and characters that already have a high strength can utilize them, and you get the higher bonus to hit and damage. Feats (adapted from [MENTION=8313]cperkins[/MENTION] ) MIGHTY ARCHER Thanks to extensive practice with powerful bows (Mighty property), you gain the following benefits: • You can utilize bows that you have proficiency with, that have the Mighty property with a STR score of up to 18. MIGHTY ARCHER EXPERT Thanks to extensive practice with mighty bows, you gain the following benefits: • You can utilize bows that you have proficiency with, that have the Mighty property with a STR score of up to 20. • You gain an extra attack when using the attack action on your turn for a ranged attack with shortbow or longbow that you have proficiency with, in addition to any extra attacks provided by your class. • Being within 5 feet of a hostile creature doesn’t impose disadvantage on your ranged attack rolls. • Before you make a ranged attack, you can choose to take a - 5 penalty to the attack roll. If the attack hits, you add +10 to the attack’s damage. WEAPON PROPERTIES New Property Mighty. A shortbow or longbow with this property has it's own STR score. A character must either possess proficiency in bows with this property, or have an equal or higher STR score, to utilize them. You may add the STR bonus of your bow (if higher), instead of your own DEX bonus, to attack and damage rolls when attacking with a mighty bow. You may not add your own STR bonus (if higher than the bow) to attack and damage rolls. The range of any shortbow or longbow with this property is increased to 200/800. Damage dice are increased from 1d6 to 2d4, or 1d8 to 2d6. The price of shortbows or longbows with the Mighty property increase by 25gp for bows with a STR score of 12, with an additional 10gp for every two points of STR above that (+25gp for STR 12, +35gp for STR 14, +45gp for STR 16, +55gp for STR 18, +65gp for STR 20, etc.). Some quotes about longbow training: From the Historum History Discussion Forum [url]http://historum.com/[/url] and this thread in particular [url]http://historum.com/medieval-byzantine-history/24934-how-did-english-longbowmen-train.html[/url] (The original site this quote is attributed to is no longer accessible.) From Wikipedia - English Longbow - attributed to Dr. A.J. Stirland. Raising the Dead: the Skeleton Crew of Henry VIII's Great Ship the Mary Rose. (Chichester 2002). Also from Wikipedia - Acromion/Os acromiale: And Wikipedia again, but attributed to Trevelyan, G. M. (2008). English Social History – A Survey of Six Centuries – Chaucer to Queen Victoria. Longman.: [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Strength bows?
Top