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General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Strength Clerics Getting Away With Warpriest Domains
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<blockquote data-quote="mneme" data-source="post: 5545366" data-attributes="member: 59248"><p>Not really.</p><p></p><p>There are no at will ranged or close paladin powers.</p><p></p><p>There are seven at will chr melee paladin powers (including 1-3 from every source--yes, including PHI).</p><p>There are 32 encounter melee paladin powers (again, including examples from PH1.</p><p>There are 18 daily melee paladin powers (next verse, same as the first).</p><p></p><p>And, of course, weapon close powers support melee builds -- though -those- are really rare; chr weapon close powers are unheard of in the Heroic tier until Divine Power, and there are 4 each (total) among encounter and daily powers.</p><p></p><p>(that said, Strength paladins don't have many weapon close powers either).</p><p></p><p>I think, overall, that they realized that Strength paladins were a mistake as produced (while chr paladins had everything except a decent basic, str paladins were not only missing a class feature (or MADing to get it); they were also missing the "occasional ranged attack" that Chr paladins could manage); they eventually basically threw Str paladins a few bones to get them a decent (or great, for half-orc paladins) Divine Challenge and Ardent Strike, plus enough powers that you could actually make a Str paladin at all levels, then ignored them. Chr paladins did have a big set of choices to make until they developed a way to use a weapon as an implement, particularly as they -couldn't- ignore their weapon entirely, but they were basically fine.</p><p></p><p>And, of course, the whole divide was artifical and a bad idea, but that's another question. But I question the idea that they had a big problem with non-weapon stats being used with weapons until PH2, as opposed to them not letting go of the double-main stat idea until then. Paladins were using Chr for weapon attacks from day 1, and FR included two Int-main-stat weapon wielders, Artificers and Swordmages. Warlocks got to join the game extremely early with Eldritch Strike -- although the weapon wielding warlock was then completely abandoned until the Hexblade. </p><p></p><p>I think the reason they made 4e paladins Chr based was inspiration from 3.5. 3.5 paladins tended to have an -extremely- high Chr -- as Chr added directly to their saves, added to-hit on smites, determined Lay on Hands, and determined Turning -- making it a more important stat than their other main stats (Str, Wisdom, and, of course, Con). So it made sense to recast them as Chr-based (just not in combination with also having them be Str based)</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="mneme, post: 5545366, member: 59248"] Not really. There are no at will ranged or close paladin powers. There are seven at will chr melee paladin powers (including 1-3 from every source--yes, including PHI). There are 32 encounter melee paladin powers (again, including examples from PH1. There are 18 daily melee paladin powers (next verse, same as the first). And, of course, weapon close powers support melee builds -- though -those- are really rare; chr weapon close powers are unheard of in the Heroic tier until Divine Power, and there are 4 each (total) among encounter and daily powers. (that said, Strength paladins don't have many weapon close powers either). I think, overall, that they realized that Strength paladins were a mistake as produced (while chr paladins had everything except a decent basic, str paladins were not only missing a class feature (or MADing to get it); they were also missing the "occasional ranged attack" that Chr paladins could manage); they eventually basically threw Str paladins a few bones to get them a decent (or great, for half-orc paladins) Divine Challenge and Ardent Strike, plus enough powers that you could actually make a Str paladin at all levels, then ignored them. Chr paladins did have a big set of choices to make until they developed a way to use a weapon as an implement, particularly as they -couldn't- ignore their weapon entirely, but they were basically fine. And, of course, the whole divide was artifical and a bad idea, but that's another question. But I question the idea that they had a big problem with non-weapon stats being used with weapons until PH2, as opposed to them not letting go of the double-main stat idea until then. Paladins were using Chr for weapon attacks from day 1, and FR included two Int-main-stat weapon wielders, Artificers and Swordmages. Warlocks got to join the game extremely early with Eldritch Strike -- although the weapon wielding warlock was then completely abandoned until the Hexblade. I think the reason they made 4e paladins Chr based was inspiration from 3.5. 3.5 paladins tended to have an -extremely- high Chr -- as Chr added directly to their saves, added to-hit on smites, determined Lay on Hands, and determined Turning -- making it a more important stat than their other main stats (Str, Wisdom, and, of course, Con). So it made sense to recast them as Chr-based (just not in combination with also having them be Str based) [/QUOTE]
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