Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Strip Background out of subclass
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 6179915" data-attributes="member: 42582"><p>I'm pretty sure that when mediaevel people talked about "knights" they didn't have in mind Sir Elton John and his ilk; the idea of knighthood as a pure honorific is more modern. The standard referent of "knight", as used by a mediavel person, is mounted, heavily armoured warrior who is also a noble (the two statuses track one another, because only nobles have the resources to equip and train themselves in the requisite fashion). Given this, I think it's harmless enough that D&D has fighters as knights, but not wizards or rogues - they might be nobles, but they're not knights - they don't ride horses in heavy armour charging with lances.</p><p></p><p>That paladins, and certain sorts of clerics, can't be knights is a different issue. But that doesn't so much show us that knight should be a background rather than a sub-class, as reinforce the broader issues currently being debated around what exactly makes for a distinct class. In 4e, for instance, if you want to play a heavily-armoured melee warrior you can be a fighter, a warlord, a paladin, a battlemind, a runepriest or a cleric. Any of those could be used to build a knight PC.</p><p></p><p>Within the current design paramaters of D&Dnext, the solution might be a <em>cavalier</em> sub-class for the paladin and a <em>templar</em> sub-class for the cleric.</p><p></p><p>As for gladiators, besides fighter the other obvious candidate would be a rogue. Maybe a "street scrapper" sub-class might do the job.</p><p></p><p>I don't think a fighter should be able to be played as an assassin, though. A fighter should be designed to play as a frontline combatant - relying on good hit points, good defences and reliable damage output to win fights. Whereas a mechancially viable assassin needs to be capable of spike damage from stealth, but therefore requires (as a balance trade off) a certain squishiness if events move from stealth to fighting out in the open. In D&D terms, that is a rogue build, not a fighter build.</p><p></p><p>The same point applies - a fighter or paladin can't be a ninja. A ninja is a form of assassin.</p><p></p><p>To the extent that a wizard <em>can</em> be a capable assassin or ninja, this shows us something about the wizard build - it is really a form of magic-using sneak/skill guy, and hence should be designed having more regard to how it sits with, and doesn't make redundant, the rogue.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 6179915, member: 42582"] I'm pretty sure that when mediaevel people talked about "knights" they didn't have in mind Sir Elton John and his ilk; the idea of knighthood as a pure honorific is more modern. The standard referent of "knight", as used by a mediavel person, is mounted, heavily armoured warrior who is also a noble (the two statuses track one another, because only nobles have the resources to equip and train themselves in the requisite fashion). Given this, I think it's harmless enough that D&D has fighters as knights, but not wizards or rogues - they might be nobles, but they're not knights - they don't ride horses in heavy armour charging with lances. That paladins, and certain sorts of clerics, can't be knights is a different issue. But that doesn't so much show us that knight should be a background rather than a sub-class, as reinforce the broader issues currently being debated around what exactly makes for a distinct class. In 4e, for instance, if you want to play a heavily-armoured melee warrior you can be a fighter, a warlord, a paladin, a battlemind, a runepriest or a cleric. Any of those could be used to build a knight PC. Within the current design paramaters of D&Dnext, the solution might be a [I]cavalier[/I] sub-class for the paladin and a [I]templar[/I] sub-class for the cleric. As for gladiators, besides fighter the other obvious candidate would be a rogue. Maybe a "street scrapper" sub-class might do the job. I don't think a fighter should be able to be played as an assassin, though. A fighter should be designed to play as a frontline combatant - relying on good hit points, good defences and reliable damage output to win fights. Whereas a mechancially viable assassin needs to be capable of spike damage from stealth, but therefore requires (as a balance trade off) a certain squishiness if events move from stealth to fighting out in the open. In D&D terms, that is a rogue build, not a fighter build. The same point applies - a fighter or paladin can't be a ninja. A ninja is a form of assassin. To the extent that a wizard [I]can[/I] be a capable assassin or ninja, this shows us something about the wizard build - it is really a form of magic-using sneak/skill guy, and hence should be designed having more regard to how it sits with, and doesn't make redundant, the rogue. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Strip Background out of subclass
Top