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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Scrivener of Doom" data-source="post: 6124403" data-attributes="member: 87576">Originally you were referring to 3E's orc with greataxe and the spike it achieved on a crit. That's a single round spike.As I pointed out, the lurker is different because it costs it two rounds worth of actions - and one of those rounds it is immobile and unable to take opportunity actions - to do two rounds worth of damage. That's very different to the random spike of a triple damage hit with a greataxe in a single round.And, yes, your duergar example may cause 37 damage in a single round... but you don't mention that it also caused exactly 0 damage in the previous round trying to set up the attack. What you really have with the duergar lurker is 0 damage and no opportunity attacks in round one followed by an average damage of 23 1/2 if it hits in round two. That's an average of 11 3/4 damage for each round, consistent with the expected average damage of 12 per round for a level 4 non-brute.And Abdul Alhazred's post before mine really clarifies how this damage compares to starting 4E hit points. It's really a very different situation to 3E's greataxe-wielding orc guarding a pie.</blockquote>