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<blockquote data-quote="ezo" data-source="post: 9459719" data-attributes="member: 7037866"><p>Well, it the execution was off... then they didn't really get it right, did they??</p><p></p><p>Anyway, for a point-by-point:</p><p></p><p>Agreed. I think they could have allowed it to stack, but then you would have people fishing for more sources to compound which would be annoying IMO.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Not really. The first levels are generally the most feature rich. When you combine everything that comes from race, background, and class, remembering that about half the classes <em>also</em> have subclasses at levels 1 or 2, the "training level" concept just isn't there IMO. Coupled with the relatively lethal aspect for PCs at this level, it is much too easy for a newbie to push their luck and not realize just how squishy PCs are at this point. And DMs can make the same mistake, using opponents who are just a bit too powerful and more dangerous than they thought without realizing it.</p><p></p><p></p><p>There are too little examples of this. Very few of the classes are really "not complex" even early on IMO. The idea is great, but the execution failed for the most part.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Sort of agree. BA would have been better if they capped it around 40 instead of 30 IMO. As it is, this didn't really solve much of what it was supposed to--it just shifted the issue. Instead of number bloat on attacks, etc. you have hit point and damage bloat instead.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Sure I guess. Rounds have been "around" forever, so not much new here. Despite not making it overly complex, you still have a lot of people who don't like bonus actions, and some find it confusing--going against the "5E is easy to learn" concept.</p><p></p><p>Players also feel cheated in ways when one player has a bonus action they can use almost every round, but their own class lacks bonus action options--so they don't get to do as much. Every class should have an at-will bonus action feature IMO.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Hmm... I go back and forth on this honestly. The larger hit die with larger creatures emphasizes the idea that hit points are meat, which causes more confusion with the idea of how much damage creatures with more hit dice but smaller size can take.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Well, the fact you have a cheat sheet to help people follow the game sort of goes against the lower complexity concept IMO. While there are certainly many more complex games when it comes to character creation, to claim 5E is low complexity isn't really accurate IMO. And it is just getting more complex as time goes on...</p><p></p><p></p><p>Agree over all.</p><p></p><p></p><p>While I think 5E has a lot of good things going for it, it also fails to execute on concepts that I think would have made it more appealing. </p><p></p><p>Nice write-up, btw. It's good to rehash these design goals, etc. once in a while.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="ezo, post: 9459719, member: 7037866"] Well, it the execution was off... then they didn't really get it right, did they?? Anyway, for a point-by-point: Agreed. I think they could have allowed it to stack, but then you would have people fishing for more sources to compound which would be annoying IMO. Not really. The first levels are generally the most feature rich. When you combine everything that comes from race, background, and class, remembering that about half the classes [I]also[/I] have subclasses at levels 1 or 2, the "training level" concept just isn't there IMO. Coupled with the relatively lethal aspect for PCs at this level, it is much too easy for a newbie to push their luck and not realize just how squishy PCs are at this point. And DMs can make the same mistake, using opponents who are just a bit too powerful and more dangerous than they thought without realizing it. There are too little examples of this. Very few of the classes are really "not complex" even early on IMO. The idea is great, but the execution failed for the most part. Sort of agree. BA would have been better if they capped it around 40 instead of 30 IMO. As it is, this didn't really solve much of what it was supposed to--it just shifted the issue. Instead of number bloat on attacks, etc. you have hit point and damage bloat instead. Sure I guess. Rounds have been "around" forever, so not much new here. Despite not making it overly complex, you still have a lot of people who don't like bonus actions, and some find it confusing--going against the "5E is easy to learn" concept. Players also feel cheated in ways when one player has a bonus action they can use almost every round, but their own class lacks bonus action options--so they don't get to do as much. Every class should have an at-will bonus action feature IMO. Hmm... I go back and forth on this honestly. The larger hit die with larger creatures emphasizes the idea that hit points are meat, which causes more confusion with the idea of how much damage creatures with more hit dice but smaller size can take. Well, the fact you have a cheat sheet to help people follow the game sort of goes against the lower complexity concept IMO. While there are certainly many more complex games when it comes to character creation, to claim 5E is low complexity isn't really accurate IMO. And it is just getting more complex as time goes on... Agree over all. While I think 5E has a lot of good things going for it, it also fails to execute on concepts that I think would have made it more appealing. Nice write-up, btw. It's good to rehash these design goals, etc. once in a while. [/QUOTE]
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