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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 4009327" data-attributes="member: 4937">Not only do I think that it hasn't been made, but I do not think it can be made because one's emotional responce to something ('I find this boring.') is entirely subjective.  But, if you think you can draw a line above which everyone will find something exciting and below which everyone will find something boring, feel free.  Don't however be suprised if someone else think's your line is unreasonable.But, I find rolling the dice to be boring.  If I'd tried to hit something for 10 rounds and failed, you'd bet I'd probably be unsatisfied with my game experience.  I'm competitive, and like most gamers I want to experience some measure of success.Actually, I think most players would respond to a run of bad luck worse than they would to a difficult challenge.  RPG players are superstitious about thier dice because they fear bad luck.  I've seen players hit a run of bad luck and respond with real life anguish and depression.  I've seen alot more respond to it by cheating.But more to the point, this goes back to what I'm saying.  That the real heart of the complaint with 'Save or Condition' isn't the 'condition', but rather the 'save'.  It's too easy to lose with too big of consequences compared to the rest of the play style encouraged by D&D.  You wouldn't find the same complaint with CoC because people expect to lose.  Hit points are a mechanic designed to give you a reasonable expectation of success.  They make it hard to lose.  In the middle of that, a 'save or die' is like - in fact is - changing between two different systems with very different expectations of outcome.Sure you can.  Quite a few multiplayer games allow you to participate long after you've no hope of success.  If it is easy to get so far behind that you can't come back from it, this is generally considered a flaw in the game.   Depending on your perspective, it could be a worse flaw that putting you out of the game completely.  Again, its subjective.  Quite a few people would count 'participate with no hope of success' as not participating.  And from there, we are right on that slope again, because we open up the question of 'How little of a chance is too little?'But that's just the problem, death or unconsciousness don't occur at or near the end of an encounter.  (Although, to be honest, most ordinary encounters IME only last 3 rounds or so, so everything after the initiative roll can be deamed 'near the end'.)  The frost giant can critical, the troll can bite and rend, all four hobgoblins can make thier roll and turn the low level wizard into a pin cushion, and suddenly a fight which still on paper leans to the PCs involves one less actively participating member.  In fact, the above involves less participation than a save or die, because it can (and does) occur without a saving throw and indeed on occassion even without rolling initiative.By your own standards, death or unconsciousness should never occur.</blockquote>

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