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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 4011004" data-attributes="member: 4937">I agree with you that to a certain extent a person's personality will determine what sort of game experiences that a person gravitates too.  Obviously, a person concerned that they can't be successful often enough in D&D is probably going to get very disgusted with CoC.  Presumably its possible that people who really love CoC can't tolerate the sometimes campy, cheesy, high heroics of D&D and the seemingly impossible things hit points allow you to do (like ignore a man with a crossbow pointed at you, or fall 200' on to rocks and then run away at top speed immediately).  And I agree that people gravitate to the game experiences that they enjoy, and obviously (since I described it) I agree that 'Save or Die' works against D&D's default experience, and I agree that D&D's default experience is quite fun.  And, in full disclosure, I'm the sort - either as a player or DM - that has a much higher tolerance for PC's scrapping to get buy, running scared of monsters, and generally living in a world where they aren't necessarily the most dangerous thing that exists.  Or at least, I have more tolerance of that sort of thing than some.  But removing the mechanic is IMO, no solution at all.  Because, as I've described and as the 4E designers obviously seem to recognize, the problem is bigger than 'Save or Die'.  The problem is 'Save or Condition'.  It goes right around the hit point mechanic.  The obvious easy thing to do is get rid of the mechanic, but I think that as an inevitable consequence of play conditions are going to show up.   If they don't, the game being played is rather shallow and I think becomes uninteresting faster.  I'm not sure I can think of a single mature RPG system that didn't have conditions.  I certainly can't think of a single peice of fantasy literature where the heroes don't suffer from various conditions, or where Wizards can't impose conditions on thier foes.No, the real solution is _fix the problem_.  Removing conditions doesn't fix the problem.  It just creates new ones.</blockquote>

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