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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Nemesis Destiny" data-source="post: 5864744" data-attributes="member: 98255">Some good stuff in this thread. I have a player that has latched on to the idea that end-of-turn control effects are 4e's equivalent to Save-or-Die/Save-or-Suck, and I have to agree. Since this realization, this guy has played only Controllers.I've had to get creative; here's what I've done...The most effective thing I've found so far (keeping in mind that I've only run Heroic Tier), is to have the monster react to conditions in interesting ways that threaten the party in different ways than if it were acting normally. The idea first came to me when playing my modified version of Reavers of Harkenwold, when the players fight Lividius the Murderer at the very end. In my version of Reavers, he was a Lesser Death Knight rather than a Tiefling Assassin, but I based it on the same stat block.Lividius has an ability to respond to condition lock called Heart of Nessus:Genius. He's still stunned, but any damage he takes in this form gets split between him and his attacker. Several of my players nearly killed themselves beating on him after the Invoker had dazed or stunned him.Another trick I like to use for dealing with Dazed, is to give some minor action attacks so the creature can still attack, even if it's less often. Here is a sample creature I built for this party several levels later. It has a multi-pronged approach to condition mitigation. It is based on the Level 7 Cave Troll from Dungeon 157, which no longer exists (!) and now can only be found at level 14 as the Cave Troll Mangler. Sorry for the giant stat block. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /><img src="http://fc00.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2012/088/6/a/cave_troll_by_nemesisdestiny-d4ub7js.png" alt="" class="fr-fic fr-dii fr-draggable " data-size="" style="" /></blockquote>

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