Stunning Fist

[Doctor Shaft]

Okay, my first attempt at creating a thread. This first attempt shall be lame for all intents and purpose.

I've been reading around various topics now for months, but never asked a question at all myself.

This topic should be obvious, but also probably quite boring. But anyway, the topic of stunning fists.

When do you use them? Is the ability itself even really that good? Not many people play monks I surmise, but is it even worth ever taking feats like extra stunning attacks? Sure, a stun disarms people since they drop things, and they lose dex bonuses and you get +2 to attack, but it's for one round. And even then, when you're at the first 10 levels or so, you're not getting many opportunities to make it work well.

I guess what I'm asking is... what's anybody's far-fetched strategy for using this ability? When do you chance it with a dice roll? Just off a whim? "I feel like throwing a stunning fist out now..."

Note: I know about all the nice little 3rd-party sourcebooks that have alternative stunning fist abilities and feats etc. I love them, and think they're cool. But i'm more concerned now about stunning fist, the original. And I keep thinking that when people say "I use only the 3.5 core rules book" that a monk kind of gets the shaft early on with this stunning fist thing (though admitedly they get cool stuff later on).

 

[Whimsical]

When I played a 12th level monk in a one-shot, I was using his stunning fist almost every round since he had twelve to use a day. When he had the opportunity to use a full round attack, he would use improved trip as his first attack. If he tripped the guy, then the free attack that he got from that feat was a stunning fist attack at +4 to hit since he was prone. If he failed the save, the rest of his monk attacks would be at +6 to hit against the guy who lost his dex for his AC. This makes him easier to hit (and sneak attack) by everyone else.

He loses his action for the round, plus anything that he happen to be holding at the time. If he gets out of it, he has to get back up (which triggers AoOs), rearm himself (which takes a move action). Basically, being stunned is not a good thing.

 

[Thanee]

And even then, when you're at the first 10 levels or so, you're not getting many opportunities to make it work well.

Why not? A single successful stunning attack can make the difference. That's like a whole extra round for you. Like "Time Stop" (ok not quite as good ) at 1st level, not too bad.

And the DC is not easy to beat at all during the early levels, if you have a decent wisdom.

Team up with a rogue for extra damage, or just have someone pick up the weapon that the opponent dropped.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Shadeus]

Stunning Fist couples very well with the Expert Tactician feat (from S&S) giving the monk an extra attack. You can take Ability Focus if you are concerned about the save DC to increase it by +2.

I'm playing a 9th-level monk now and just like Thanee said, he teams with the rogue a lot and they usually can kill just about anyone (save a BBEG) in a round. And stunning fists are devastating vs. wizards who have poor Fort saves. Monks are about the only class with enough movement to make it to a well-defended wizard and attack.

 

[Christian]

Use stunning fist on wizards/sorcerers whenever you can. Your target's low Fort save & (usually) poor AC means a good chance of success, and your whole party will thank you if you keep the enemy from raining arcane death on them for a whole round ...

 

[Doctor Shaft]

Okay, sure. Point taken that it works well on low fort characters like magic users. But what about higher AC, better fort save creatures, which you are also more likely to encounter? Now what?

Please note, I"m not trying to complain about stunning fist, just wondering what if a few people have some farfetched, weirdo philosophy of when and where to use the stunning fist. The wizard/sorceror thing is a given.

Still, ten shots, five shots, whatever. It's not a lot, especially when your chances to miss the target are higher. So, what do you do then? Roll the die and flurry and hope for a good one?

 

[Thanee]

Of course, you won't use it on everyone all the time. You must select your targets carefully. If there is need to "shut down" a dangerous opposing character, then it's most often a good idea to use Stunning Fist. If that character happens to be one who just shrugs off the save with ease, there is no point in using it.

It's not the ultimate weapon against everything, but against certain targets it is a quite powerful one.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Coredump]

Okay, sure. Point taken that it works well on low fort characters like magic users.
<snip>
It's not a lot, especially when your chances to miss the target are higher. So, what do you do then? Roll the die and flurry and hope for a good one?

not sure I understand you. It is a freebie... it doesn't lessen your chance to hit, and it could be a huge boon. As stated, it means no actions for a round, and you drop your weapon/wand/etc, and lowers AC, and opens up SA damage (even ranged). And for no cost, you still get the same to hit chance, still do the same damage... whats not to love?

Sure, you have to hit, but you have to hit to do damage anyway. Sure, they have to miss their fort save, but same for many spells.

You bemoan the effect at low levels.
Monk1 Wis 16, Fort DC of 13
Fighter or cleric 1, Con 14, needs a 9. Or a 40% chance of being stunned, (no action for a round, then have to pick up weapon and get AoO.
Bard, Rogue, Wizard 1 Con 12 needs a 12. Or a 60% chance of failing. Not bad.

At level 4 for everyone
F&C need a 9
B/R/W need a 13
And the monk can try it for 4 rounds in a row..... not bad.