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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Unwise" data-source="post: 5818863" data-attributes="member: 98008">Good advice Jbear. What I like to do is add in a few additional issues when a trap is spotted. Such as:1. They see that those statues have movable heads and a pipe in their mouth, but they have no idea what that does. This is perception, not thievery or dungeoneering that might tell them what something is, they just see it.2. They might even spot the trap, but they don't know exactly how it works or how to disarm it. That takes a standard action from the rogue. Does the party delay their actions if the rogue is slow off the initiative? I like PCs finding the trap just as combat starts and they have not had a chance to deal with it.3. Even obvious pit-traps are cool if the enemy has enough artillery and controllers. Either risk the athletics check to jump it, or risk getting shot at or slid into the pit.4. Traps need to be activated. Without a thievery check, they might see what they presume is a pit-trap, but that does not mean it is a pressure-plate system. The kobolds might have to pull a hidden leaver to activate it.5. Hazards and smart automaton traps are cool too. A kobold pulls a leaver and a crossbow pops down from the ceiling and starts shooting anyone that is not a kobold. Flame jets shoot from the walls every second round following a set pattern. The kobolds know what it is, can the PCs work it out in time?One of my players was first level with 22 passive perception, an Avenger too coincidentally. I had to be sure to remember that just because you see something, does not mean you know what it is. For instance, "this room has extra deep grouting and odd shaped floor tiles" I could say that even when no trap is present, they could make a dungeoneering check to see if that is just the style of masonry, or thievery to check if some of the tiles really are pressure plates. Annoyingly, the Avenger in my campaign was also trained in thievery, dungeoneering and stealth, so really was awesome at disabling traps and hazards.</blockquote>

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