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<blockquote data-quote="JustKim" data-source="post: 3563976" data-attributes="member: 5478">When I read this line, things clicked.The shadowdancer PrC does not help a character's hide check. It can help her to make a hide check, but they are not actually any better at remaining hidden. Darkness restricts visibility, but also does not improve a hide check. The only edge this character actually has is +5 from a cloak.Now you may think I'm just being anal, but there is a point to this. I think there's a difference between what you logically think should challenge the players, and what actually does by the game rules.If you just don't have a head for the rules, maybe you should not be running the game. Failing that, my advice is to cheat.Your players have the advantage over you because they understand how the rules work better than you. Maybe they are taking things from books you haven't read and picking up abilities you haven't considered the ramifications of. Meanwhile, you're hoping to ambush them with rogues in cloaks at night. If you could crunch numbers like them, if you used the same kinds of tricks, you could legitimately challenge them, but it is easier to apply some fiat.Want someone to stay hidden? Give them a +10 bonus to hide checks. Want PCs to fail their saving throws? Put them in a situation that you think should apply a -6 or worse penalty to their saves and then run with it. Raise the enemy spellcaster's Intelligence to increase the saving throw DCs of his spells. Raise it by a lot if you need to. If it doesn't work the first time, raise it by more the second time.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="JustKim, post: 3563976, member: 5478"] When I read this line, things clicked. The shadowdancer PrC does not help a character's hide check. It can help her to [i]make[/i] a hide check, but they are not actually any better at remaining hidden. Darkness restricts visibility, but also does not improve a hide check. The only edge this character actually has is +5 from a cloak. Now you may think I'm just being anal, but there is a point to this. I think there's a difference between what you logically think should challenge the players, and what actually does by the game rules. If you just don't have a head for the rules, maybe you should not be running the game. Failing that, my advice is to [i]cheat[/i]. Your players have the advantage over you because they understand how the rules work better than you. Maybe they are taking things from books you haven't read and picking up abilities you haven't considered the ramifications of. Meanwhile, you're hoping to ambush them with rogues in cloaks at night. If you could crunch numbers like them, if you used the same kinds of tricks, you could legitimately challenge them, but it is easier to apply some fiat. Want someone to stay hidden? Give them a +10 bonus to hide checks. Want PCs to fail their saving throws? Put them in a situation that you think should apply a -6 or worse penalty to their saves and then run with it. Raise the enemy spellcaster's Intelligence to increase the saving throw DCs of his spells. Raise it by a lot if you need to. If it doesn't work the first time, raise it by more the second time. [/QUOTE]

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