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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Herremann the Wise" data-source="post: 3564817" data-attributes="member: 11300">Hi Ravilah,There are quite a few spells and effects that can chip away at your PCs saves. Even better though, go the route of no-save spells. Some nice necromancy spells can normally give your enemies a boost (or more to the point your PCs some penalties). Rip out a few Ray of Enfeeblements and Enervations and make your PCs feel the pain. Make sure you have a few opponents too so that your PCs are forced not to concentrate all their fire on the biggest enemy (possibly making the biggest enemy not so obvious). This will give yourself more time to make one of those spells actually work.And finally, sometimes its good to let the players win and win big. Just as long as there's a spectrum of success and failure to make the extremes just that little more vibrant.Best RegardsHerremann the WisePS: Your problems might be a little more ingrained than what some of these ideas may fix. Our group plays by the book with no house rules - even down to the 4d6 drop the lowest for attribute score creation. In terms of treasure they are a fraction ahead of schedule (half a level) but at 13th level, this does not make too much difference. If you find yourself having difficulties because you've introduced some real PC power-up house rules or have handed over way too many goodies, here is your central problem. If this is the case, you need to sit your players down and have a group chat about bringing them back a little for the benefits of all. Sometimes though players get into a real power hungry mindset and won't stand for anything but the most optimal. You need flexible players in this regard.PSS: One thing I have found is that if your PCs are artificially enhanced (due to house rules/excess extravagant equipment/overpowered combinations), then when you do challenge them, the normally large challenge sweetspot is vastly reduced. That is, the combat outcome normally ends up either enemy quickly killed/PCs quickly overcome and killed. If you can pull back the PCs power a little, you get a nice big in-between chunk of: one or two PCs down (but not killed) and the enemy dispatched with much tension and excitement. The funny thing is, if you play by the rules, the D&D rules set works really really well.</blockquote>

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