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Message: <blockquote data-quote="fba827" data-source="post: 10221" data-attributes="member: 807">Step 1: Make two photocopies of each of the PC's character sheets (you should end up with 4 sheets of your own at the end)Step 2: Add 1d4 levels to each of your sheetsStep 3: Change names, genders, and a couple of feats or skill distributions or equipment on eachYou now have 4 NPCs that start off AT LEAST as powerful as the PCs <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":-)" title="Smile    :-)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":-)" />(Of course, I'm big on enemies being people rather than monsters...)But, as an alternate to the above - an alternate that will give your PCs a little more of a fighting chance and will save you from having to give them even more magic weapons if/when they win...Start out as before, but don't make any changes.  Basically, there are 2 'shadows' (clones/whatever) of each of them that must be defeated.  Of course, once defeated, they (and their equpment) disapear so that can easily avoid the situation of giving them more stuff.Couple other options:1) Magic-using enemies.  They can be annoying and you don't have to give magic items at the end (since the arsenal would have been spells)2) Have a theif steal some of the precious items.  While they may be able to recover the items, it does present the possibility for them to do things for at least a couple sessions without said items.   The theif doesn't have to steal all of the 'big magic items' but a couple of the major ones should suffice.  It would allow them to rely on other resources/abilities at their disposal and would allow you to be able to offer a couple more challenges3) A powerful enemy  (who really really really doesn't like them)  casts a wish or miracle spell that either reduces the ability of their weapons/armor (defenses/offenses) or perhaps dispells all magic, permently or not?, on them.4)Shift focus of campaign from encounters that can be won by force to onces that require other... for instance, run a couple sessions where diplomacy is the key.  Or perhaps they gain a seat on a Kingdom's council and get involved in politics (even if just a side-line activity from adventuring) - not all people are up to this type of session though...  some of the best sessions i've been part of never involved a single melee combat... lots of skill checks though <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":-)" title="Smile    :-)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":-)" />so maybe the ideas aren't great but maybe they'll get some thought process going <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />Just keep in mind, whatever you do, do not actually make it a no win situation for the PCs if you do deminish (either by taking away via NPC or whatever) their resources.  It might just frustrate them.</blockquote>

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