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Message: <blockquote data-quote="JoeGKushner" data-source="post: 3176064" data-attributes="member: 1129">Depends on your resources and what you consider a bard. The bard from Complete Book of Eldritch might could add some variety there.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /> But those tweaks in existing classes are often added to characters who are maximizing some aspect of their character. Or at least in my experience.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> No, I'm saying that in my experience, multi-classing and freak shows are so... I won't say common, but easy in game mecahnics terms these days, that it's much more common than it previously was, reducing the core strength of the archetype system D&D is built around.  And I agree that point gen characters are more difficult to effectively build. I imagine a world where a point buy system shows various archetypes and character builts in a manner similiar to a 'level' progression that allows players to either move into it or make their own stuff up. Similiar in some ways to say Mutants & Masterminds. But isn't this a major beef against D&D now? That the game is soley for those for cherry pick it and that standard adventurers fall into two camps; players walking through it with ultra efficient built characters or players suffering TPK's from being build ineffectively?I can see it in Rolemaster but Hero? I guess I just got too good at Hero. Rolemaster, regardless of skill set, takes a while to make characters based on doing level progression every level (kinda like D&D now.)But there almost there now. Options in the core book for point buy on stats. Option in the core book for non-random rolled hit points. Skill points per level that you use to buy skills. Options that you can switch and flip out in terms of feat and ability acquisition. It's almost point built just with more limitations no?And maybe D&D could be the first game to have a point gen that was't complex. Probably not as it's pretty confusing now a days and the spell system would get completely nerfed in any point buy based on the wildly varying power levels of spells. "Magic missile first level? Nope."  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue    :p"  data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":p" />  That would be the true revolution!</blockquote>

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