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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Sacrosanct" data-source="post: 7067080" data-attributes="member: 15700">Well yeah, I don't think I'm creating a subclass in the definition of the word (and I said as much in my OP).  But I don't know if I agree with the rest of your post.  Prestige classes are just multi-classing, which not only defeats the point, but also misses the objective (by making things more complicated and introducing another set of mechanics into the game).I also don't agree with the identity thing you are talking about.  Archetypes cross classes all the time.  It's one of the reasons we have multiclassing to begin with.  So no, hunters aren't all just rangers.  why can't a hunter be a fighter, or a rogue, or even a wizard?  Why can't an assassin be a fighter or monk?  To continue to use the ninja example, we have the assassin and shadow monk--both subclasses that can be considered to replicate ninjas, but clearly if a ninja assassin IS a rogue, then they can't also be a monk, which is what you're arguing if a subclass archetype MUST belong to a defined class.  Additionally, look at the eldritch knight.  Basically it's a fighter magic user.  So why have it as a subclass?  Because maybe that character wants to maintain the fighting abilities of a fighter, but have some spell casting to augment that without needing to multiclass (and therefore lose fighting functionality).  That "half caster" archetype doesn't belong to just one class.  We have paladins, rangers, and arcane tricksters that are all also just half casters.  So instead of making all the work to have a half caster subclass for all of these classes, why not just have a half caster generic subclass that can be use with  many of the other main classes?  So what I'm presenting already exists and has some sort of precedence in that context.So multiclassing is right out (which includes prestige classes) because it means you lose functionality of your core class, which is a requirement.  Also, the most obvious answer is also right out (creating a brand new class from scratch) because it's out of scope of this discussion and directly opposes the goal (making a subclass that any class can use).</blockquote>

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