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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Yaarel" data-source="post: 8803141" data-attributes="member: 58172">I agree, many experienced players want to start off with a substantial character at level 1. Compare 4e with suite of solid hit points, comprehensive concept, plus featlike Background, and various feature swaps.The solution is using "level 0" to unpack the frontloading into an incremental advancement across several "level zero" levels. By calling them all "zero" and naming each zero level by its D&D mechanic, Abilities, Saves, Skills, Combat, and Feat, invites the experienced players to start with the amount of features that they prefer. The level 0 is literally the "zero to hero" style of character development.Yeah. The 1DD Ranger is an example of a very substantial level 1 character. If the model for the Ranger and the Rogue extends to Bard and other classes, all level 1 characters will be substantial.The 1DD Ranger feels like 5e. Yet it is feels substantial like 4e. This set up might have threaded the needle between the two preferences?With level 1 being substantial, I would normally start at level 1. But occasionally, I would start characters during level zero for "zero to hero". In the Character Advancement Schedule above, using the 1DD Ranger as the model, level zero comprises four levels for the Background development and four additional levels for frontloading the Class features. Plus the level of Abilities and the level 1, a level 1 character comprises a remarkable ten feats at character creation. Each level is worth about a feat of design space.When multiclassing, it seems possible to start at a level 0 of the secondary class. Thus the narrative feel more like training, and the mechanics add on more smoothly, while dips for a level 1 feature an additional level away.A game is for its gameplayers. Teaching a game is a separate consideration. The "normal" level 1, needs to be whatever the experienced players feel should be normal. Albeit a roleplaying game does well to accommodate different playstyles as much as possible.I feel strongly, the subclass is the essential aspect of a character concept, and must be actualizable at level 1. Level 1 must allow for a comprehensive character concept, even when looking forward to further advancing this concept at higher levels.The solution is to unpack the zero levels, for use by players who prefer undeveloped character concepts.It seems to me, the Rogue character can pick Scout for the subclass during level 0, then decide to switch to Swashbuckler at level 2 or 6.Multi-classing can work, and multi-sub-classing can work too.These kinds of recommendations sound useful for deciding where to begin during level 0.When dealing with players that are grocking the concept of a roleplaying game, it is, by far, more helpful to start at level 0, specifically at the beginning of the five levels of the Background, before taking any features from the class or subclass levels.Many veteran players might prefer to go with the default subclass at level 0, then multisubclass to a different subclass at a later level.</blockquote>

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