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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Composer99" data-source="post: 8803257" data-attributes="member: 7030042">So, as a preliminary remark, this topic is, I expect, going to be never more than hypothetical. WotC is not going to fundamentally change class design so that all classes will have subclasses come online at 1st level.With that stated, I'm of the mind that a 1st-level D&D character ought to be complete. Period, end of story. Gaining levels is great, and all good fun, and is part of the game, but in principle, IMO you should be able to take a 1st-level character and play that character without gaining levels at all - maybe just picking up hit points, feats, and cool gear instead.(Note that if you allow for the scaling of class features that you get at 1st level - such as spellcasting - this amounts to allowing a recreation of an old-school gameplay style.)If the game's core design aesthetic includes subclasses - that is, if being a complete character means having a subclass - then subclasses ought to be available at 1st level for any character.[HR][/HR]With respect to one's concept for a character being incomplete, or changing over time, it would be better to my mind to be able to change subclass than to punt subclasses down the road. (A game with more granularity, à la PF2, could see mixing and matching of subclass features instead, but I think that's out of line with the 5e design aesthetic, which 1D&D still clearly aims to fall within.)As far as teaching new players goes, I think it is better to have a progressive method for introducing gameplay - rather like an instructional book for learning an instrument - that starts with the basics of the game before getting into character creation, and, if someone wants to jump into character creation straight away, specialised introductory classes for newer players that reinforce those methods. (Not entirely coincidentally, these specialised classes could in theory also fulfill the gameplay preferences of folks who want an intentionally simpler gameplay experience with respect to character mechanics.)I can't say that I care for an extended level-zero progression - if we're looking to specifically cater to a zero-to-hero gameplay preference, I think it would be better to either have a distinct variant rule or use the aforementioned introductory classes with an eventual conversion to a 1st-level character in a core class.</blockquote>

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