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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Vaalingrade" data-source="post: 8803377" data-attributes="member: 82524">Good for you even if it's in no way relevant?Not a philosophy teacher though, trying to appeal to a fallacy right after an ad hominem (on top of earlier little jabs I ignored)Not on this thread, but I wouldn't say it if I hadn't heard it."You don't know what you're talking about" ~ the pot calling the copper kettle black a couple of sentences ago.Chess is an extremely complicated game. An yet we manage not to gate knights behind an experience wall.And if you don't even use D&D to teach RPGs, why put roadblocks in the game to make it 'easier' to teach?1) I'm sure plenty of people say the same for chess. Just because something isn't for everyone doesn't mean you make it not for other people to accommodate.2) Do you think the very simple addition of a subclass ability is the issue and not the subsystems/subconcepts we drop into for skills and species and magic. You can get spells straight up at 1st level; each one a little packet of all new rules, but no one's trying to screw people out of that at level 1.But just on this one part of the whole because (wait for it)But magic is okay, fighting styles are okay, bardic inspiration is okay, the ranger's woefully ineffectual front-loading is okay, expertise and sneak attack are okay.No, it's just this one grain of sand that breaks the whole thing.Except...Boom.Told you to wait for it and here it is.It's about enforcing a playstyle. It's about starting at level zero with as few powers as possible and making sure that's the default. Making people 'earn' their character like in the good old days.It's nothing that would be effectively changed by them actually printing level 0 rules that would actually fulfil those asperations in a way that would actually satisfy that desire... except then it wouldn't be the default; people starting with their character concept in full wouldn't be made the outliers who are going outside the rules and the norms.Newbie friendliness to me is just a stalking horse.</blockquote>

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