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<blockquote data-quote="takyris" data-source="post: 1473032" data-attributes="member: 5171">Whereas I am one of its stubborn defenders, and hope that they don't come around as fully as you hope.&nbsp; <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile&nbsp; &nbsp; :)"&nbsp; data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />In theory, I wouldn't object to using both subdual damage and nonlethal damage in d20 Modern (ie, having the non-permanent-damage equivalent of both hit points AND Massive Damage checks), but in practice, I'd worry that causing damage to accumulate would make Improved Brawl and Knockout Punch too powerful.&nbsp; Psion, have you run it that way?&nbsp; Did the ability to do 1d8 damage, with auto-crits if you can win Initiative and hit, unbalance things?&nbsp; Do you think it would unbalance things in a non-FX game?(Not attempting to do loaded questions.&nbsp; My suspicion, personally, is that taking an AoO every time you attack would make those feats unattractive in a game with a lot of monsters, but that in a low-FX game, where you're usually fighting other humans, the benefits of having Improved Brawl outweigh the consequences of using it most of the time in a possibly overpowered way.&nbsp; But if you've run it that way and not had problems, I'd love to hear about it.)</blockquote>

[QUOTE="takyris, post: 1473032, member: 5171"] Whereas I am one of its stubborn defenders, and hope that they don't come around as fully as you hope. :) In theory, I wouldn't object to using both subdual damage and nonlethal damage in d20 Modern (ie, having the non-permanent-damage equivalent of both hit points AND Massive Damage checks), but in practice, I'd worry that causing damage to accumulate would make Improved Brawl and Knockout Punch too powerful. Psion, have you run it that way? Did the ability to do 1d8 damage, with auto-crits if you can win Initiative and hit, unbalance things? Do you think it would unbalance things in a non-FX game? (Not attempting to do loaded questions. My suspicion, personally, is that taking an AoO every time you attack would make those feats unattractive in a game with a lot of monsters, but that in a low-FX game, where you're usually fighting other humans, the benefits of having Improved Brawl outweigh the consequences of using it most of the time in a possibly overpowered way. But if you've run it that way and not had problems, I'd love to hear about it.) [/QUOTE]

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