Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
Suddenly, Magipunk (3.5)
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Greenfield" data-source="post: 5911119" data-attributes="member: 6669384"><p>Ancient Greece was on the verge of an "industrial revolution" with the creation of a functioning steam engine around the time of Alexander the Great. Didn't quite take off.</p><p></p><p>The Egyptians also had a steam engine of sorts, though it was used as a toy rather than being harnessed for work.</p><p></p><p>So you've discovered how to make a magical steam engine.</p><p></p><p>But wait, no you haven't. You've discovered how to make magical steam.</p><p></p><p>Making steam is easy. And there's more to a steam engine than just "a bit of metal". The research that made Fulton's machine work actually took some other people several years.</p><p></p><p>The research was done at the behest of the distillers in Scotland, to determine how to conserve on fuel costs for running a still.</p><p></p><p>Trying to build a steam engine with "a bit of metal" and steam power is kind of like creating an atomic bomb with "a few pounds of metal". It actually took some top minds and a huge investment to figure out how to take a few pounds of Plutonium and make it go boom.</p><p></p><p>So what are the hazards? Boiler explosions because of a casting flaw, or because someone got lazy and decided to solder that seam instead of welding it? Or because you didn't know how much pressure can build up, and you didn't make your valves to handle the flow? </p><p></p><p>Any of a hundred mistakes will ruin your project. And the building it's in. And you.</p><p></p><p>And once you have a machine that spins on its own, so what? You also need machines that can be driven by it to make it worthwhile.</p><p></p><p>The great mills of the American industrial revolution required not only steam engines, but also massive amounts of raw materials to make things out of. Huge mining operations for iron and copper, immense supplies of wool for the spinners and looms of the textile industry, an entirely new strain of cotton plant (higher yield at the price of more seeds), coupled with the invention of the Cotton Gin to clean those seeds from the fiber.</p><p></p><p>Want unlimited mechanical motion? Create a Golem and stand him by a crank. Tell him to wind it. He will, forever, without ever needing to be fed, without need for sleep or entertainment or distraction of any kind.</p><p></p><p>But creation of magic items for the masses? That takes something else. That takes, again, immense supplies of raw materials, rare items and supplies plus the life force (i.e. EXP) from item crafters.</p><p></p><p>Think about it: A Wand of Cure Light costs 750 gp to buy, which means 375 in raw materials. It isn't just gold pieces, it's money spent on rare and expensive components. If it was just gold the wand would weight seven and a half pounds (50 gp per pound).</p><p></p><p>In the real world their industrial age was and still is driven by energy. Originally it was coal and firewood. Then it was hydro-electric power and oil. Today it's wind, solar, nuclear, oil, hydro-electric and atomic power. Some areas are working on power plants that harness tidal forces. Others use geo-thermal (read "volcano power"). And we're hungry for more.</p><p></p><p>In the game world the power source is life itself. Call it the "creative energies" of the artificer, or maybe the "bad guys" harvest it from unwilling victims via dark ritual. But either way, it's a resource that's in strictly limited supply.</p><p></p><p>We are, in fact, just finishing up a story arc in our campaign that was based on someone trying to run a magic factory powered by the souls of children.</p><p></p><p>So saying that "Create Water + Agitate Matter + a bit of metal" equals a steam engine is like saying that anyone with access to sulfur, charcoal and bat droppings (great source for nitrate) automatically has gunpowder. They <em>can</em> make gunpowder if they have the knowledge that such a thing exists, and if they can figure out the right preparations and proportion without killing themselves, but it's far from a "gimme".</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Greenfield, post: 5911119, member: 6669384"] Ancient Greece was on the verge of an "industrial revolution" with the creation of a functioning steam engine around the time of Alexander the Great. Didn't quite take off. The Egyptians also had a steam engine of sorts, though it was used as a toy rather than being harnessed for work. So you've discovered how to make a magical steam engine. But wait, no you haven't. You've discovered how to make magical steam. Making steam is easy. And there's more to a steam engine than just "a bit of metal". The research that made Fulton's machine work actually took some other people several years. The research was done at the behest of the distillers in Scotland, to determine how to conserve on fuel costs for running a still. Trying to build a steam engine with "a bit of metal" and steam power is kind of like creating an atomic bomb with "a few pounds of metal". It actually took some top minds and a huge investment to figure out how to take a few pounds of Plutonium and make it go boom. So what are the hazards? Boiler explosions because of a casting flaw, or because someone got lazy and decided to solder that seam instead of welding it? Or because you didn't know how much pressure can build up, and you didn't make your valves to handle the flow? Any of a hundred mistakes will ruin your project. And the building it's in. And you. And once you have a machine that spins on its own, so what? You also need machines that can be driven by it to make it worthwhile. The great mills of the American industrial revolution required not only steam engines, but also massive amounts of raw materials to make things out of. Huge mining operations for iron and copper, immense supplies of wool for the spinners and looms of the textile industry, an entirely new strain of cotton plant (higher yield at the price of more seeds), coupled with the invention of the Cotton Gin to clean those seeds from the fiber. Want unlimited mechanical motion? Create a Golem and stand him by a crank. Tell him to wind it. He will, forever, without ever needing to be fed, without need for sleep or entertainment or distraction of any kind. But creation of magic items for the masses? That takes something else. That takes, again, immense supplies of raw materials, rare items and supplies plus the life force (i.e. EXP) from item crafters. Think about it: A Wand of Cure Light costs 750 gp to buy, which means 375 in raw materials. It isn't just gold pieces, it's money spent on rare and expensive components. If it was just gold the wand would weight seven and a half pounds (50 gp per pound). In the real world their industrial age was and still is driven by energy. Originally it was coal and firewood. Then it was hydro-electric power and oil. Today it's wind, solar, nuclear, oil, hydro-electric and atomic power. Some areas are working on power plants that harness tidal forces. Others use geo-thermal (read "volcano power"). And we're hungry for more. In the game world the power source is life itself. Call it the "creative energies" of the artificer, or maybe the "bad guys" harvest it from unwilling victims via dark ritual. But either way, it's a resource that's in strictly limited supply. We are, in fact, just finishing up a story arc in our campaign that was based on someone trying to run a magic factory powered by the souls of children. So saying that "Create Water + Agitate Matter + a bit of metal" equals a steam engine is like saying that anyone with access to sulfur, charcoal and bat droppings (great source for nitrate) automatically has gunpowder. They [I]can[/I] make gunpowder if they have the knowledge that such a thing exists, and if they can figure out the right preparations and proportion without killing themselves, but it's far from a "gimme". [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
Suddenly, Magipunk (3.5)
Top