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Message: <blockquote data-quote="ruleslawyer" data-source="post: 3948494" data-attributes="member: 1757">Very true. I was, in fact, responding to your point about the *number* of available bonuses to AC as opposed to attack. +x armor and +x weapons are only part of the picture and, as JohnSnow just noted, they even each other out anyway. The problem is when you have a character with armor +armor enhancement +nat armor +Dex +deflection who *still* gets hit on a 2 by a CR-appropriate opponent. The major issue is that AC doesn't scale *unless* you have a ton of magic in the game, whereas attack bonuses scale directly, and *a lot* by level.Now, a player can munch AC like crazy and get it into the 50s by high level, but that just shows the problem more clearly: The math on AC and attacks is overly wonky in 3e, and it's hard to adequately manage in game play. Moreover, the range of available ACs, and their tenuous and non-scaling relation to attack bonuses, means that at most levels, tactical choices like fighting defensively are basically moot. Making AC and attacks scale on an equal curve solves those problems. I can *know* that my +5 armor evens the odds vs. my prospective opponent's +5 weapon. I don't have to pile on bonuses from 15 different sources in order to actually lower my chance of being hit below 95%. And so on.Take Iron Heroes, for instance. There are precisely three ways to increase base defense (AC) in that game:1) Level-based defense bonus2) Dex3) Shield.Everything else is a tactical choice: Do I fight defensively? Do I give up defense for a stronger attack using a defense challenge? Do I use a feat like Combat Expertise or Dodge? Because defense and attack scale relatively cleanly and in tandem, these become meaningful, transparent choices.In my current game, the most defense-focused PC (an armiger with strong focus in shield use) has a defense of 23. An equal-level harrier (basically a finesse/speed fighter type) can match this without the shield. A CR-appropriate opponent (these are 8th-level PCs) should have an attack bonus of about +10-15, which allows a hit on a mid-range die roll. That is the right math to aim for at all levels. It makes fighting defensively et al meaningful, and allows for specialized characters to raise or lower their defense within a respectable range without throwing all the math out of whack.Or what John said.</blockquote>

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