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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 9516831" data-attributes="member: 42582"><p>It seems to me that of the following two things, the second is a special case of the first, and is of particular importance for RPGing:</p><p></p><p style="margin-left: 20px">*<em>Reasoning in a fiction</em> - that is, extrapolating or adding in ways that permits falsehoods (ie it's a fiction) but that conforms to appropriate background assumptions;</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">*<em>Narrating a consequence for a player's failed move/check.</em></p><p></p><p>The discussion of non-sequiturs, at least as I've followed it, is about the second of these, not the first.</p><p></p><p>Apocalypse World says the following (p 117):</p><p></p><p style="margin-left: 20px">Here are guidelines for choosing your moves:</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">Always choose a move that can follow logically from what’s going on in the game’s fiction. It doesn’t have to be the only one, or the most likely, but it does have to make at least some kind of sense.</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">Generally, limit yourself to a move that’ll (a) set you up for a future harder move, and (b) give the players’ characters some opportunity to act and react. A start to the action, not its conclusion.</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">However, when a player’s character hands you the perfect opportunity on a golden plate, make as hard and direct a move as you like. It’s not the meaner the better, although mean is often good. Best is: make it irrevocable.</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">When a player’s character makes a move and the player misses the roll, that’s the cleanest and clearest example there is of an opportunity on a plate. When you’ve been setting something up and it comes together without interference, that counts as an opportunity on a plate too.</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">But again, unless a player’s character has handed you the opportunity, limit yourself to a move that sets up future moves, your own and the players’ characters’.</p><p></p><p>As I read it, <em>it does have to make at least some kind of sense</em> is about permissible reasoning within the fiction. Whereas <em>setting up a future harder move</em> is about appropriate consequences (ie avoiding "non-sequitur" as it has been used in this thread. The latter is under a tighter constraint.</p><p></p><p>For instance, while carnivorous locusts coming from nowhere might make sense within the fiction, if the move <em>you're being nibbled by carnivorous locusts</em> hasn't been set up (eg by seeing the cloud of locusts approaching over the horizon) then it is probably not a good GM-side move in AW.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 9516831, member: 42582"] It seems to me that of the following two things, the second is a special case of the first, and is of particular importance for RPGing: [indent]*[i]Reasoning in a fiction[/i] - that is, extrapolating or adding in ways that permits falsehoods (ie it's a fiction) but that conforms to appropriate background assumptions; *[i]Narrating a consequence for a player's failed move/check.[/i][/indent] The discussion of non-sequiturs, at least as I've followed it, is about the second of these, not the first. Apocalypse World says the following (p 117): [indent]Here are guidelines for choosing your moves: Always choose a move that can follow logically from what’s going on in the game’s fiction. It doesn’t have to be the only one, or the most likely, but it does have to make at least some kind of sense. Generally, limit yourself to a move that’ll (a) set you up for a future harder move, and (b) give the players’ characters some opportunity to act and react. A start to the action, not its conclusion. However, when a player’s character hands you the perfect opportunity on a golden plate, make as hard and direct a move as you like. It’s not the meaner the better, although mean is often good. Best is: make it irrevocable. When a player’s character makes a move and the player misses the roll, that’s the cleanest and clearest example there is of an opportunity on a plate. When you’ve been setting something up and it comes together without interference, that counts as an opportunity on a plate too. But again, unless a player’s character has handed you the opportunity, limit yourself to a move that sets up future moves, your own and the players’ characters’.[/indent] As I read it, [I]it does have to make at least some kind of sense[/I] is about permissible reasoning within the fiction. Whereas [I]setting up a future harder move[/I] is about appropriate consequences (ie avoiding "non-sequitur" as it has been used in this thread. The latter is under a tighter constraint. For instance, while carnivorous locusts coming from nowhere might make sense within the fiction, if the move [I]you're being nibbled by carnivorous locusts[/I] hasn't been set up (eg by seeing the cloud of locusts approaching over the horizon) then it is probably not a good GM-side move in AW. [/QUOTE]
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