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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 9519393" data-attributes="member: 42582">We're ad idem here.That second option seems like it is drifting a bit.From page 34 of revised: &quot;the stated task goal and intent do not come to pass&quot;. In Gold and Gold Revised (p 31) this is reworded as &quot;the stated intent does not come to pass&quot;.Torchbearer 2e is different from BW here, because it does allow the GM to narrate a failure as successful intent + condition.I agree. I've also had this in 4e - as a GM, working with the player to get clearer on what the intent is.Ugly truth!I've never quite done this. But I agree that there can be a tendency to move to skill + intent rather than a clear task. I see this as a version of Baker's &quot;lazy play&quot;: <a href="http://www.lumpley.com/index.php/anyway/thread/456" target="_blank">anyway: Lazy Play vs IIEE with Teeth</a>This is why I posted somewhere recently that Burning Wheel doesn't meet Baker's standards for &quot;IIEE with teeth&quot;.(I just did a search: that post was <a href="https://www.enworld.org/threads/trying-to-describe-narrative-style-gameplay-to-a-current-player-in-real-world-terms.707651/post-9504375" target="_blank">here</a>.)</blockquote>

[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 9519393, member: 42582"] We're ad idem here. That second option seems like it is drifting a bit. From page 34 of revised: "the stated task goal and intent do not come to pass". In Gold and Gold Revised (p 31) this is reworded as "the stated intent does not come to pass". Torchbearer 2e is different from BW here, because it does allow the GM to narrate a failure as [I]successful intent + condition[/I]. I agree. I've also had this in 4e - as a GM, working with the player to get clearer on what the intent is. Ugly truth! I've never quite done this. But I agree that there can be a tendency to move to skill + intent rather than a clear task. I see this as a version of Baker's "lazy play": [URL="http://www.lumpley.com/index.php/anyway/thread/456"]anyway: Lazy Play vs IIEE with Teeth[/URL] This is why I posted somewhere recently that Burning Wheel doesn't meet Baker's standards for "IIEE with teeth". (I just did a search: that post was [url=https://www.enworld.org/threads/trying-to-describe-narrative-style-gameplay-to-a-current-player-in-real-world-terms.707651/post-9504375]here[/url].) [/QUOTE]

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