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<blockquote data-quote="Jeremy" data-source="post: 150605" data-attributes="member: 4036">+200 Save SmackdownOriginally Posted by AlNoting a previous save smackdown where the averages were +40 or better, I thought I'd go a couple of steps further: I'd try to get an average of +60.&nbsp; I managed that, but there was still just a little bit more that could be squeezed out, so I went for the big one: total saves of +200.&nbsp; Here it is:Human Psi(Tel)1/Clr8/Contemplative9/Pal1/Sor1 *reincarnated* to a Halfling (this is crucial, see later).Clerical Domains are irrelevant, but Contemplative prestige domains have to be Mysticism and Divination (e.g. Pelor should do the trick).Base:From Paladin:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; +2/+0/+0From Sorceror:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +2/+0/+2 (includes Rat familiar)From Psion:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +0/+0/+2From Cleric:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +6/+2/+6From Contemplative:&nbsp; &nbsp; +3/+3/+6Totals (so far):&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; +13/+5/+16Forsaker might seem strange, but just become an ex-forsaker.&nbsp; You only want to be one for the vital +1 boost to Dex.Not too bad so far.Reflex is looking a bit poorly, so cast Divine Agility to grant yourself the Reflex save of a 20th level rogue:&nbsp; &nbsp; +13/+12/+16Now, we cast Greater Aspect of the Deity, and then apply the ability mods:Dex: 18base +5wish +6Gloves +2halfling racial +2halfcelestial racial = 33 (+11)Con: 18base +5wish +6Headband of Perfect Excellence (S&amp;F) +4halfcelestial racial = 33 (+11)Wis: 18base +5wish +6Headband of Perfect Excellence +4halfcelestial racial +3age = 36 (+13)Note that due to Timeless Body (Contemplative 9th level ability) there is no penalty to physical statistics from aging.Add them on:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +24/+23/+29Now we begin the real smackdown:Cha: 18base +5wish +5advancement +6Cloak +4halfcelestial racial +3age = 41 (+15)Using Mysticism and the Paladin bonus, this gives +16 to saves (not +30, see DotF pg.80)We now have:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; +40/+39/+45Beginning to shape up, but we're still a long way off.So we turn our attention to feats: (8 total, 7+1 human (hence could not start halfling))Iron Will&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; +0/+0/+2Lightning Reflexes&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; +0/+2/+0Great Fortitude&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; +2/+0/+0Strong Soul&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; +1/+0/+1Divine Cleansing&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; +2/+0/+0 (when active) (sacred bonus)Snake-Blooded&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; +0/+1/+0Bullheaded&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; +0/+0/+1Improved Psicrystal&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; +2/+0/+2 (taking Resolve, includes bonus for Hero psicrystal)NB NO Luck of Heroes as luck bonus will not stack with spells.The tally stands at&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +47/+42/+51Magical Items are next:Vest of Resistance&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +5/+5/+5 (resistance)Armour of Command&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +2/+2/+2 (gives +4 to Cha, so +2 to all saves)2 Arms of Nyr&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +0/+2/+0 (+4 Dex: hey, they are unnamed bonuses, who says you can't have two?)Potion of Heroism&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +2/+2/+2 (competence bonus)Headband of Perfect Excellence (already covered)Gloves of Dexterity +6 (already covered)Cloak of Charisma +6 (already covered)That's it.&nbsp; Anything else will be superseded by spells:That takes us to&nbsp; &nbsp; +56/+53/+60Finally, here comes the spell run-down.&nbsp; Recitation&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; +3/+3/+3 (luck)Righteous Wrath&nbsp; &nbsp; +2/+2/+2 (morale)Foresight&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; +0/+2/+0 (insight) (from Divination prestige domain)Tenser's Transformation&nbsp; &nbsp; +3/+0/+0 (competence, normally +5 but only +3 over Potion of Heroism)Rage&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; +2/+0/+0 (+4 Con)Curse of the Brute&nbsp; &nbsp; +1/+0/+0 (since you have odd numbers in both Charisma and Constitution, this will yield a net benefit)Emotion: Rage&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +1/+0/+0 (+2 Con, and believe it or not it does stack with Rage)Greater Aspect of the Deity (already covered)Use Miracle to emulate spells which you cannot cast (TT, Rage, Emotion).&nbsp; Technically, if TT'd you cannot cast spell, and same with Rage, so TT yourself and ask a friend to Rage you. Total:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; +68/+60/+65Then, stand behind 9/10 cover.&nbsp; This gives a +4 cover bonus to Reflex saves: it's a bit of a cheat, but smackdowns assume optimal conditions. If you're particularly worried, just assume we create Walls of Stone around ourselves.This takes us to +68/+64/+65.Three points off!That's why you got reincarnated as a halfling.&nbsp; Add the racial bonuses and you get the grand total of +69/+65/+66.&nbsp; Add them together and you get +200.&nbsp; Phew!And believe it or not, this actually makes quite an effective character even if not going for saves: he can use arcane, psionic and divine items, cast 9th level divine spells and has full armour and martial weapon proficiencies, as well as have a few 1st arcane and psionic abilities as a little boost.&nbsp; Neither are there multiclass penalties (you started as a human, remember?).&nbsp; Finally, it is 'self-contained': there is no reliance on scrolls: 36 Wis gives you 3 9th level spells (Miracles) and 1 domain spell (Greater Aspect of the Deity).All of this assumes you can't Empower a spell more than once: otherwise Triple Empowered Eagle's Splendour is the way to go (and 3xEmpowered Cat's Grace/Endurance/Owl's Wisdom).Now what were the DCs for Azathoth's spells again? 60ish? Not a problem__________________'Any technology sufficiently advanced is indistinguishable from magic' -Arthur C. Clarke'Any technology not indistinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced' -Terry Pratchett&lt;author’s updates: You *can* Empower many times...now that is interesting.Well, in that case make the following changes:Quadruple Empowered (Triple Empowered, once from Rod of Greater Empowerment) Cat's Grace/Endurance/Owl's Wisdom and Eagle's Splendor.Max enhancement bonus = 5 x 3 = +15This takes stats up toDex 42 (+5 better than before)Con 42 (+4 better than before)Wis 45 (+5 better)Cha 50 (+5 better)So saves are now +78/+75/+76, total +229.&gt;</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Jeremy, post: 150605, member: 4036"] [b]+200 Save Smackdown[/b] Originally Posted by Al Noting a previous save smackdown where the averages were +40 or better, I thought I'd go a couple of steps further: I'd try to get an average of +60. I managed that, but there was still just a little bit more that could be squeezed out, so I went for the big one: total saves of +200. Here it is: Human Psi(Tel)1/Clr8/Contemplative9/Pal1/Sor1 *reincarnated* to a Halfling (this is crucial, see later). Clerical Domains are irrelevant, but Contemplative prestige domains have to be Mysticism and Divination (e.g. Pelor should do the trick). Base: From Paladin: +2/+0/+0 From Sorceror: +2/+0/+2 (includes Rat familiar) From Psion: +0/+0/+2 From Cleric: +6/+2/+6 From Contemplative: +3/+3/+6 Totals (so far): +13/+5/+16 Forsaker might seem strange, but just become an ex-forsaker. You only want to be one for the vital +1 boost to Dex. Not too bad so far. Reflex is looking a bit poorly, so cast Divine Agility to grant yourself the Reflex save of a 20th level rogue: +13/+12/+16 Now, we cast Greater Aspect of the Deity, and then apply the ability mods: Dex: 18base +5wish +6Gloves +2halfling racial +2halfcelestial racial = 33 (+11) Con: 18base +5wish +6Headband of Perfect Excellence (S&F) +4halfcelestial racial = 33 (+11) Wis: 18base +5wish +6Headband of Perfect Excellence +4halfcelestial racial +3age = 36 (+13) Note that due to Timeless Body (Contemplative 9th level ability) there is no penalty to physical statistics from aging. Add them on: +24/+23/+29 Now we begin the real smackdown: Cha: 18base +5wish +5advancement +6Cloak +4halfcelestial racial +3age = 41 (+15) Using Mysticism and the Paladin bonus, this gives +16 to saves (not +30, see DotF pg.80) We now have: +40/+39/+45 Beginning to shape up, but we're still a long way off. So we turn our attention to feats: (8 total, 7+1 human (hence could not start halfling)) Iron Will +0/+0/+2 Lightning Reflexes +0/+2/+0 Great Fortitude +2/+0/+0 Strong Soul +1/+0/+1 Divine Cleansing +2/+0/+0 (when active) (sacred bonus) Snake-Blooded +0/+1/+0 Bullheaded +0/+0/+1 Improved Psicrystal +2/+0/+2 (taking Resolve, includes bonus for Hero psicrystal) NB NO Luck of Heroes as luck bonus will not stack with spells. The tally stands at +47/+42/+51 Magical Items are next: Vest of Resistance +5/+5/+5 (resistance) Armour of Command +2/+2/+2 (gives +4 to Cha, so +2 to all saves) 2 Arms of Nyr +0/+2/+0 (+4 Dex: hey, they are unnamed bonuses, who says you can't have two?) Potion of Heroism +2/+2/+2 (competence bonus) Headband of Perfect Excellence (already covered) Gloves of Dexterity +6 (already covered) Cloak of Charisma +6 (already covered) That's it. Anything else will be superseded by spells: That takes us to +56/+53/+60 Finally, here comes the spell run-down. Recitation +3/+3/+3 (luck) Righteous Wrath +2/+2/+2 (morale) Foresight +0/+2/+0 (insight) (from Divination prestige domain) Tenser's Transformation +3/+0/+0 (competence, normally +5 but only +3 over Potion of Heroism) Rage +2/+0/+0 (+4 Con) Curse of the Brute +1/+0/+0 (since you have odd numbers in both Charisma and Constitution, this will yield a net benefit) Emotion: Rage +1/+0/+0 (+2 Con, and believe it or not it does stack with Rage) Greater Aspect of the Deity (already covered) Use Miracle to emulate spells which you cannot cast (TT, Rage, Emotion). Technically, if TT'd you cannot cast spell, and same with Rage, so TT yourself and ask a friend to Rage you. Total: +68/+60/+65 Then, stand behind 9/10 cover. This gives a +4 cover bonus to Reflex saves: it's a bit of a cheat, but smackdowns assume optimal conditions. If you're particularly worried, just assume we create Walls of Stone around ourselves. This takes us to +68/+64/+65. Three points off! That's why you got reincarnated as a halfling. Add the racial bonuses and you get the grand total of +69/+65/+66. Add them together and you get +200. Phew! And believe it or not, this actually makes quite an effective character even if not going for saves: he can use arcane, psionic and divine items, cast 9th level divine spells and has full armour and martial weapon proficiencies, as well as have a few 1st arcane and psionic abilities as a little boost. Neither are there multiclass penalties (you started as a human, remember?). Finally, it is 'self-contained': there is no reliance on scrolls: 36 Wis gives you 3 9th level spells (Miracles) and 1 domain spell (Greater Aspect of the Deity). All of this assumes you can't Empower a spell more than once: otherwise Triple Empowered Eagle's Splendour is the way to go (and 3xEmpowered Cat's Grace/Endurance/Owl's Wisdom). Now what were the DCs for Azathoth's spells again? 60ish? Not a problem __________________ 'Any technology sufficiently advanced is indistinguishable from magic' -Arthur C. Clarke 'Any technology not indistinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced' -Terry Pratchett [i]<author’s updates: You *can* Empower many times...now that is interesting. Well, in that case make the following changes: Quadruple Empowered (Triple Empowered, once from Rod of Greater Empowerment) Cat's Grace/Endurance/Owl's Wisdom and Eagle's Splendor. Max enhancement bonus = 5 x 3 = +15 This takes stats up to Dex 42 (+5 better than before) Con 42 (+4 better than before) Wis 45 (+5 better) Cha 50 (+5 better) So saves are now +78/+75/+76, total +229.>[/i] [/QUOTE]

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