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<blockquote data-quote="Curmudgeon" data-source="post: 678198" data-attributes="member: 10260">Shifter Smackdown!Hi Jeremy -- My friend told me about this site just for the Smackdown thread.&nbsp;&nbsp; What fun!&nbsp; -- and I'm so pleased to have thought of my very own.&nbsp; I don't own a lot of books, but I like the simpler Smacks better anyway.&nbsp; Here goes....====Supreme Self-Reliant Shifter Smackdown!(version 1.0, Invincible Uber-Hydra)For this smackdown, you need:-- 4 absolutely official, holy writ WotC products (PHB, Monster Manual, Masters of the Wild, Tome &amp; Blood)-- 2 low-level spells, Magic Fang and Might of the Oak, (optional, for even better smacking), castable by the smackdown character. -- 1 (one) commonly available magic item, Boots of Speed, for a whopping 8000 GP, or even a mere potion of haste will do in a pinch for 750 shekels.-- And best of all... (sung to your favorite Xmas carol)0 Bards-a-Singing0 Clerics Blessing0 Wizards BuffingNO HELP FROM FRIENDS!(who needs 'em)The player may also find it useful to stock up on d20's...Base Character:&nbsp; Druid 5 / Shifter 7 / Barb 1 / Rogue 3Race unimportant -- I assume Human for the extra feat.Stats unimportant, but presumably max Wisdom (I assume 22 -- 18 plus level-ups), and I'd never play anyone without 14 Con or better.HP: 8 + 11d8 + 1d12 + 3d6 + 32 (14 Con) = 106.5.&nbsp; Round down to 100, or 132 when raging (conveniently divisibly by 12).BAB:&nbsp; +3 (Druid), +5 (Shifter), +1 (Barb.), +2 (Rogue) = +11Feats (7):&nbsp; Alertness, Endurance, Weapon Focus (bite), Natural Spell, Quick Wild Shape, + 2 others of your choice -- I'll take Improved Init. and Extended Rage. Skills not important, apart from max in Knowledge (monsters). The character, like any responsible shifter, is a member of the local Beastchasers' guild (T&amp;B), and is therefore familiar with a variety of monstrous forms.&nbsp; (Just so you don't have to look it up, Shifter 7 allows Tiny through Huge versions of everything except elementals, undead, outsiders, and constructs.)Our hero is cruising around in Ethereal Marauder form as usual (handy little critter, that, since its home plane is the ethereal, unlike phase spiders, etc. which require a supernatural &quot;manifestation&quot; to go ethereal), wearing his boots of speed, which he chose to resize to fit his form, as shifters can do (the ethereal marauder is &quot;bipedal,&quot; though I don't know why, since ethereal creatures just float around in any direction they please), when he happens upon his next victim(s).&nbsp;&nbsp; He follows them around for a while until he learns what he wishes to know about them (mostly who is the wizard, who will be attacked first, and who is the cleric, who will be next in line).&nbsp;&nbsp; WITHOUT EVEN BOTHERING to magic himself up, since he's decided they look rather puny, he gets within 15 feet, activates his boots of haste (standard action), rages (free action) and changes into... (drum roll...)a 1/2 dragon (black or copper), 1/2 pyro-lernean 12-headed hydra (move-equivalent action).He now has:STR 23 (hydra) + 8 (half-dragon) + 4 (rage) = 35 (+12 bonus)CON 20 (hydra) + 2 (half-dragon) + 4 (rage) = 26 (rage lasts 16 rds.)AC:&nbsp; doesn't really matter, but 15 + 4 (half-dragon) + 4 (haste) -2 (rage) = 21Total attack bonus = +24Damage:&nbsp; 2d6 (huge half-dragon bite) + 12 + 2d6 (sneak attack) = avg. 26 pts Attacks per round....(evil grin)The Monster Manual clearly states, &quot;The hydra can attack with all its heads at no penalty, even if it moves or charges during the round.&quot;&nbsp;&nbsp; What kind of action is an attack minus a move?&nbsp; That's right, a PARTIAL action!&nbsp; (Bigger evil grin)Since my opponents are presumably not expecting a massive hydra to materialize out of the ether, I'd say my chances of a surprise round are somewhere between excellent and automatic.&nbsp;&nbsp; So I use my partial action, plus my bonus partial action, to sneak attack 24 times, all at +24 to hit, for 26 pts. of damage per hit.&nbsp; Here's the math:Victim AC (flatfooted)&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Hit %&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Hits/Damage&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Total&nbsp; &nbsp; 26&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; .95 X 24 = 22 X 26 =&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 572&nbsp; &nbsp; 30&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; .75 X 24 = 18 X 26 =&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 468&nbsp; &nbsp; 35&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; .5 X 24&nbsp; = 12 X 26 =&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 312&nbsp; &nbsp; 38&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; .35 X 24 = 8 X 26&nbsp; =&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 208(Even without counting criticals!)If he can be bothered to cast Might of the Oak and Magic Fang (while in Ethereal Marauder form, with Natural Spell), therein adding +3 to hit &amp; damage, the numbers look like this:AC&nbsp; &nbsp; 30&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; .9 X 24 =&nbsp; 21 X 29 =&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 609&nbsp; &nbsp; 35&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; .65 X 24 = 15 X 29 =&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 435&nbsp; &nbsp; 40&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; .4&nbsp; X 24 = 9 X 29&nbsp; =&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 261&nbsp; &nbsp; 42&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; .3 X 24 =&nbsp; 7 X 29&nbsp; =&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 203Best part #1:&nbsp; he doesn't even have 24 heads yet!&nbsp; (Although he also loses sneak attack damage in subsequent rounds, and if the opponent(s) are taking off 6-8 heads per round, the damage doesn't actually go up that much.)&nbsp; Best part #2:&nbsp; should he win initiative, he does 24 more attacks with two more partial actions, and turns back into an ethereal marauder again on his move, leaving anyone still alive to wonder what the *#$%&nbsp; just happened (also, by the way,&nbsp; healing 24 points of damage he didn't take unless one of the victims was a balor and blew up on him or something).&nbsp; &nbsp; Next step:&nbsp; lather, rinse, repeat.Best part #3 --&nbsp; DE-FENSE:&nbsp;&nbsp; AC who cares?&nbsp; -- he takes damage only from slashing weapons, the most damage he can take from one blow is a whopping 11 pts (132/12), he gets two heads back for every one cut off until he reaches 24, unless fire or acid damage is applied to the stump, and he's immune to fire (pyro-hydra) and to acid (black or copper half-dragon).&nbsp; Oh, and it hardly matters, but he has wings and can fly at his normal move (more half-dragon bonuses).&nbsp;&nbsp; The only problem he might have is against a colossal number of fighters who could take off 24 heads a round and keep him under wraps.&nbsp; Or there's always death magic, so a scarab of protection might come in handy too (but that's why you kill the wizards and clerics first, to avoid being time-stopped, harmed, etc.) Can this be made even more massive?&nbsp; It sure can, with the Monster Manual II, which I just got (told you I don't have a lot of books).&nbsp;&nbsp; Check out the &quot;Monster (Pyro-Lernean Hydra) of Legend&quot; variation.For this our character needs to add two levels to Shifter, for access to Outsider form, and lose two levels of Rogue.Choosing from the Monster of Legend extraordinary ability options, we'll keep him immune to fire &amp; acid, and throw in poison as well (or fear, if he's taking on a dragon).Now his AC is 15 + 4 (haste) + 5 (legend) + 2 (dex) - 2 (rage) = 24Str:&nbsp; 23 + 10 (legend) + 4 (rage) + 4 (Might of Oak) = 41(+15 bonuses)Total attack bonus = +28Damage = 2d6 (Huge Legendary) + 16 + 1d6 (sneak) = 26.5The math:AC&nbsp; &nbsp; 30&nbsp; &nbsp; .95 X 24 = 22 X 26.5 =&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 583&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 35&nbsp; &nbsp; .7 X 24&nbsp; = 16 X 26.5 =&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 424&nbsp; &nbsp; 40&nbsp; &nbsp; .45 X 24 = 10 X 26.5 =&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 265&nbsp; &nbsp; 42&nbsp; &nbsp; .35 X 24 = 8 X 26.5 =&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 212Basically the same numbers, BUT here's the kicker:&nbsp; poison bite (Ex. ability)&nbsp; with save of DC 34!! -- 10 + 8 (1/2 of 16 HD) + 12 (Con modifier) + 4 (Ex. ability) -- sapping 1d6 Str. per hit.Sir Savealot, the 20th level paladin NPC described in the DMG, has &quot;only&quot; +21 on his Fort save, so he's missing 60% against my uber-hydra.&nbsp; If we give him flatfooted AC 35 (5 better than listed in the DMG), then he's failing 9 fortitude saves (rounding down), taking 9d6 Str. damage (in addition to 424 pts. of damage), per round.&nbsp; Not a good day at the office for him.==Like it?&nbsp; Clearly, I'm taking advantage of two &quot;broken&quot; things:&nbsp; the hydra's move + attack capacity (probably should be downgraded to &quot;pounce&quot;), and the use of templates for shapechanging purposes (should be disallowed for polymorph self, wild shape, and maybe even the shapechange spell).&nbsp;&nbsp; But then, finding the seams in the rules is what this thread is all about, isn't it?</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Curmudgeon, post: 678198, member: 10260"] [b]Shifter Smackdown![/b] Hi Jeremy -- My friend told me about this site just for the Smackdown thread. What fun! -- and I'm so pleased to have thought of my very own. I don't own a lot of books, but I like the simpler Smacks better anyway. Here goes.... ==== Supreme Self-Reliant Shifter Smackdown! (version 1.0, Invincible Uber-Hydra) For this smackdown, you need: -- 4 absolutely official, holy writ WotC products (PHB, Monster Manual, Masters of the Wild, Tome & Blood) -- 2 low-level spells, Magic Fang and Might of the Oak, (optional, for even better smacking), castable by the smackdown character. -- 1 (one) commonly available magic item, Boots of Speed, for a whopping 8000 GP, or even a mere potion of haste will do in a pinch for 750 shekels. -- And best of all... (sung to your favorite Xmas carol) 0 Bards-a-Singing 0 Clerics Blessing 0 Wizards Buffing NO HELP FROM FRIENDS! (who needs 'em) The player may also find it useful to stock up on d20's... Base Character: Druid 5 / Shifter 7 / Barb 1 / Rogue 3 Race unimportant -- I assume Human for the extra feat. Stats unimportant, but presumably max Wisdom (I assume 22 -- 18 plus level-ups), and I'd never play anyone without 14 Con or better. HP: 8 + 11d8 + 1d12 + 3d6 + 32 (14 Con) = 106.5. Round down to 100, or 132 when raging (conveniently divisibly by 12). BAB: +3 (Druid), +5 (Shifter), +1 (Barb.), +2 (Rogue) = +11 Feats (7): Alertness, Endurance, Weapon Focus (bite), Natural Spell, Quick Wild Shape, + 2 others of your choice -- I'll take Improved Init. and Extended Rage. Skills not important, apart from max in Knowledge (monsters). The character, like any responsible shifter, is a member of the local Beastchasers' guild (T&B), and is therefore familiar with a variety of monstrous forms. (Just so you don't have to look it up, Shifter 7 allows Tiny through Huge versions of everything except elementals, undead, outsiders, and constructs.) Our hero is cruising around in Ethereal Marauder form as usual (handy little critter, that, since its home plane is the ethereal, unlike phase spiders, etc. which require a supernatural "manifestation" to go ethereal), wearing his boots of speed, which he chose to resize to fit his form, as shifters can do (the ethereal marauder is "bipedal," though I don't know why, since ethereal creatures just float around in any direction they please), when he happens upon his next victim(s). He follows them around for a while until he learns what he wishes to know about them (mostly who is the wizard, who will be attacked first, and who is the cleric, who will be next in line). WITHOUT EVEN BOTHERING to magic himself up, since he's decided they look rather puny, he gets within 15 feet, activates his boots of haste (standard action), rages (free action) and changes into... (drum roll...) a 1/2 dragon (black or copper), 1/2 pyro-lernean 12-headed hydra (move-equivalent action). He now has: STR 23 (hydra) + 8 (half-dragon) + 4 (rage) = 35 (+12 bonus) CON 20 (hydra) + 2 (half-dragon) + 4 (rage) = 26 (rage lasts 16 rds.) AC: doesn't really matter, but 15 + 4 (half-dragon) + 4 (haste) -2 (rage) = 21 Total attack bonus = +24 Damage: 2d6 (huge half-dragon bite) + 12 + 2d6 (sneak attack) = avg. 26 pts Attacks per round....(evil grin) The Monster Manual clearly states, "The hydra can attack with all its heads at no penalty, even if it moves or charges during the round." What kind of action is an attack minus a move? That's right, a PARTIAL action! (Bigger evil grin) Since my opponents are presumably not expecting a massive hydra to materialize out of the ether, I'd say my chances of a surprise round are somewhere between excellent and automatic. So I use my partial action, plus my bonus partial action, to sneak attack 24 times, all at +24 to hit, for 26 pts. of damage per hit. Here's the math: Victim AC (flatfooted) Hit % Hits/Damage Total 26 .95 X 24 = 22 X 26 = 572 30 .75 X 24 = 18 X 26 = 468 35 .5 X 24 = 12 X 26 = 312 38 .35 X 24 = 8 X 26 = 208 (Even without counting criticals!) If he can be bothered to cast Might of the Oak and Magic Fang (while in Ethereal Marauder form, with Natural Spell), therein adding +3 to hit & damage, the numbers look like this: AC 30 .9 X 24 = 21 X 29 = 609 35 .65 X 24 = 15 X 29 = 435 40 .4 X 24 = 9 X 29 = 261 42 .3 X 24 = 7 X 29 = 203 Best part #1: he doesn't even have 24 heads yet! (Although he also loses sneak attack damage in subsequent rounds, and if the opponent(s) are taking off 6-8 heads per round, the damage doesn't actually go up that much.) Best part #2: should he win initiative, he does 24 more attacks with two more partial actions, and turns back into an ethereal marauder again on his move, leaving anyone still alive to wonder what the *#$% just happened (also, by the way, healing 24 points of damage he didn't take unless one of the victims was a balor and blew up on him or something). Next step: lather, rinse, repeat. Best part #3 -- DE-FENSE: AC who cares? -- he takes damage only from slashing weapons, the most damage he can take from one blow is a whopping 11 pts (132/12), he gets two heads back for every one cut off until he reaches 24, unless fire or acid damage is applied to the stump, and he's immune to fire (pyro-hydra) and to acid (black or copper half-dragon). Oh, and it hardly matters, but he has wings and can fly at his normal move (more half-dragon bonuses). The only problem he might have is against a colossal number of fighters who could take off 24 heads a round and keep him under wraps. Or there's always death magic, so a scarab of protection might come in handy too (but that's why you kill the wizards and clerics first, to avoid being time-stopped, harmed, etc.) Can this be made even more massive? It sure can, with the Monster Manual II, which I just got (told you I don't have a lot of books). Check out the "Monster (Pyro-Lernean Hydra) of Legend" variation. For this our character needs to add two levels to Shifter, for access to Outsider form, and lose two levels of Rogue. Choosing from the Monster of Legend extraordinary ability options, we'll keep him immune to fire & acid, and throw in poison as well (or fear, if he's taking on a dragon). Now his AC is 15 + 4 (haste) + 5 (legend) + 2 (dex) - 2 (rage) = 24 Str: 23 + 10 (legend) + 4 (rage) + 4 (Might of Oak) = 41 (+15 bonuses) Total attack bonus = +28 Damage = 2d6 (Huge Legendary) + 16 + 1d6 (sneak) = 26.5 The math: AC 30 .95 X 24 = 22 X 26.5 = 583 35 .7 X 24 = 16 X 26.5 = 424 40 .45 X 24 = 10 X 26.5 = 265 42 .35 X 24 = 8 X 26.5 = 212 Basically the same numbers, BUT here's the kicker: poison bite (Ex. ability) with save of DC 34!! -- 10 + 8 (1/2 of 16 HD) + 12 (Con modifier) + 4 (Ex. ability) -- sapping 1d6 Str. per hit. Sir Savealot, the 20th level paladin NPC described in the DMG, has "only" +21 on his Fort save, so he's missing 60% against my uber-hydra. If we give him flatfooted AC 35 (5 better than listed in the DMG), then he's failing 9 fortitude saves (rounding down), taking 9d6 Str. damage (in addition to 424 pts. of damage), per round. Not a good day at the office for him. == Like it? Clearly, I'm taking advantage of two "broken" things: the hydra's move + attack capacity (probably should be downgraded to "pounce"), and the use of templates for shapechanging purposes (should be disallowed for polymorph self, wild shape, and maybe even the shapechange spell). But then, finding the seams in the rules is what this thread is all about, isn't it? [/QUOTE]

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