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Message: <blockquote data-quote="hayek" data-source="post: 5409337" data-attributes="member: 53760">Agreed, ignore all parts of my argument referencing RAI. I think summons without opportunity attacks don’t grant flanking b/c of RAW: 1. Per Wednesday Boy’s quote from the rules, you don’t get flanking if you can’t take opportunity actions.2. Per Aulirophile’s posting of the summoning rules, summoned creatures don’t get any actions on their own (which would include opportunity actions) and are only granted an opportunity action if the text of the spell says they get one (through an opportunity attack).  I was referencing the rules citation that Wednesday Boy provided:  This also jives with what I always remember that the rules for flanking were – must be able to take opportunity/immediate actions to flank.   Feel free to ignore all references to RAI in my argument.  I believe the original PHB provided the rules as Wednesday Boy quoted them – Opp Attacks rely on being able to take Opportunity Actions. Whether I’m right or wrong, the Rules Cyclopedia seems to have changed that rule, but since it is most recent I guess I’ll accept that as the new rule (assuming of course that it’s not a misprint because misprints and errata never happen). In that case, there’s a few issues with the rule as the RC states it that I would appreciate hearing your take on, Jester: 1 . There are many utility summons in the game that have absolutely no ability to attack whatsoever. Iron Cohort for example – just moves around the battlefield until you command it to soak up an attack for you. Are you arguing that this creature can flank even though it has no offensive powers whatsoever? 2. Familiars are creatures (and allies) when in their active state, however they cannot flank. They are capable of taking the same actions as an Iron Cohort, why can the Iron Cohort flank if familiars cannot? I don’t have books in front of me, so I can’t look up the familiar rule, but I can assure you it exists because there is a level 2 wizard utility power, Familiar Harrier, that lets you teleport your familiar and then allows it (obviously as an exception to the normal rules) to count as an ally for the purposes of flanking. As you quote the RC: A creature also cannot flank while it is subject to any effect that prevents it from taking actions. All summoned creatures are subject to an important effect that prevents them from taking actions: they don’t have any actions to take. The summoning rules say they have no actions of their own except for those granted by the text of the spell.  1. This argument seems to concede that utility summons such as Iron Cohort cannot flank because they don't have any attack powers. Yay! 2. So let me get this straight, you're saying I have a dretch that I've summoned and it can't take opportunity actions, but i can move it in position to flank with my party's rogue. Then an enemy zaps my dretch with a power that says 'The target can no longer take opportunity actions'. This changes ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about the powers/actions/abilities of the dretch in ANYWAY WHATSOEVER, but it suddenly can't flank because of the power. I'm not sure how to point out how illogical this argument is other than to use LARGE CAPITAL LETTERS to point out its inconsistencies... Clearly the dretch was already subject to an anti-flanking effect by the very nature of its existence. That's why nothing changed about it when it was hit by an opportunity action-preventing power.</blockquote>

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