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General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Sunder -- The most useful useless feat
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<blockquote data-quote="the Jester" data-source="post: 372712" data-attributes="member: 1210"><p>Rackhir: I don't think anyone here is seriously advocating sundering everything in every fight, and that's really bad tactics anyway. Think about it: if you miss/fail your sunder attempt, you've given your foe an extra attack on you.</p><p></p><p>The idea of sending in the mooks with GMW to attack the weapons- well, unless they're under some gnarly compulsion, I'd think that they'd rather try to take out the guys who are beating them to death than their weapons. Your average lackey isn't willing to throw his life away for his lord's tactics (at least, not usually, not imc).</p><p></p><p>Your comment on handing out too much magic seems more like an issue with baseline treasure values in 3e than anything. I give out treasure almost _exclusively_ by random generation, both because I like rolling dice and because I see no reason why the high-level fighter villain would be using a scimitar just because the party has a druid in it; he'll either have commissioned or bought the best weapon for his feats, tactics, etc., or else taken what he's found and built tactics around that. The party I run has no monks but found magic nunchakus. Well, thanks to baseline assumptions about wealth and magic item creation in 3e, they sold 'em to buy something more suited to the party.</p><p></p><p>YMMV, but going by the baseline assumptions on treasure and magic in the DMG, nobody oughta get that uptight about losing their treasured stuff. Heck, my dwarven ranger had a keen shortsword so I took improved crit/shortsword. Two games later I lost ALL my magic items (damn talons card!). Was _I_ upset about it? Well, for a few minutes. Was _HE_ upset about it? Yeah- he still is. Is that improved crit feat a waste? Well, it would be better if it was in the longsword. OH WELL. That is part of the price I paid for assuming I'd have that sword around. </p><p></p><p>I agree with whoever it was that said he uses trips, sunders, disarms, bull rushes, etc. to keep combat interesting. Hit, miss, hit, hit, miss... boring. Hit, miss, trip, hit, disarm is much more exciting. All those feats exist to help spice things up.</p><p></p><p>IMHO, of course, and please don't take this as an attack; I just felt that you raised a couple of points I wanted to respond to, especially since I'm the one who said "whiny players" and you said "whiny dms"... I'm not a whiny dm. So far, I think I've sundered about two weapons since 3e came out. But I think it's a great tactic (especially when you're talking about earth elementals or similar monsters that deal tons of damage), and I think it's always good to have the threat that your great toys might get broken in the back of a pc's head. </p><p></p><p>Yeah, sometimes I've taken spellbooks away. Yeah, if a cleric has a MAJOR infraction I'll take away their spells for a while. I don't do any of it often, but adversity is the mother of invention. Or something.</p><p></p><p>Good gaming to you- whether you game my way or not! </p><p></p><p><img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin :D" data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="the Jester, post: 372712, member: 1210"] Rackhir: I don't think anyone here is seriously advocating sundering everything in every fight, and that's really bad tactics anyway. Think about it: if you miss/fail your sunder attempt, you've given your foe an extra attack on you. The idea of sending in the mooks with GMW to attack the weapons- well, unless they're under some gnarly compulsion, I'd think that they'd rather try to take out the guys who are beating them to death than their weapons. Your average lackey isn't willing to throw his life away for his lord's tactics (at least, not usually, not imc). Your comment on handing out too much magic seems more like an issue with baseline treasure values in 3e than anything. I give out treasure almost _exclusively_ by random generation, both because I like rolling dice and because I see no reason why the high-level fighter villain would be using a scimitar just because the party has a druid in it; he'll either have commissioned or bought the best weapon for his feats, tactics, etc., or else taken what he's found and built tactics around that. The party I run has no monks but found magic nunchakus. Well, thanks to baseline assumptions about wealth and magic item creation in 3e, they sold 'em to buy something more suited to the party. YMMV, but going by the baseline assumptions on treasure and magic in the DMG, nobody oughta get that uptight about losing their treasured stuff. Heck, my dwarven ranger had a keen shortsword so I took improved crit/shortsword. Two games later I lost ALL my magic items (damn talons card!). Was _I_ upset about it? Well, for a few minutes. Was _HE_ upset about it? Yeah- he still is. Is that improved crit feat a waste? Well, it would be better if it was in the longsword. OH WELL. That is part of the price I paid for assuming I'd have that sword around. I agree with whoever it was that said he uses trips, sunders, disarms, bull rushes, etc. to keep combat interesting. Hit, miss, hit, hit, miss... boring. Hit, miss, trip, hit, disarm is much more exciting. All those feats exist to help spice things up. IMHO, of course, and please don't take this as an attack; I just felt that you raised a couple of points I wanted to respond to, especially since I'm the one who said "whiny players" and you said "whiny dms"... I'm not a whiny dm. So far, I think I've sundered about two weapons since 3e came out. But I think it's a great tactic (especially when you're talking about earth elementals or similar monsters that deal tons of damage), and I think it's always good to have the threat that your great toys might get broken in the back of a pc's head. Yeah, sometimes I've taken spellbooks away. Yeah, if a cleric has a MAJOR infraction I'll take away their spells for a while. I don't do any of it often, but adversity is the mother of invention. Or something. Good gaming to you- whether you game my way or not! :D [/QUOTE]
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Sunder -- The most useful useless feat
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