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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 6735036" data-attributes="member: 996">Yep, it's a logical enough theory.  The problems I see are with the CS die mechanic, itself.  <ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">It's designed to work with the Battlemaster, to build on that sub-classes high-DPR contribution by tacking extra damage and riders onto it's multiple attacks.  Divorced from the Battlemaster's primary DPR contribution and multi-attacking mechanic, it makes less sense.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">All battlemaster maneuvers become available at 3rd level, making them essentially all apprentice-level abilities.  On the Battlemaster, that's not under-powered in an absolute sense, since the multi-attacking they're tacked onto scales with level.  The Warlord will need resources that keep up with the demand of providing support to a party at higher levels.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">The short-rest recharge mechanic of CS dice is bland and abstract, a self-conscious nod to 4e encounter powers without much rationale.  The Warlord's emphasis on Inspiration and Tectics could open up other, more significant and less abstract limitations on the use of it's abilities.</li> </ul>The analogy between Battlemaster & Warlord and EK & Wizard is a reasonable one, but it's not exact.  If the analogy were tighter, the EK would have to get only 1st level spells, and only 3-4 of the spells on it's list would actually have been shared with the Wizard.Once you realize that, it becomes clear you can't just simply work from Battlemaster to Warlord the way you might be able to reverse-engineer the EK to uncover hints about Wizard design.That sounds a little inside-out.  If the Battlemaster /was/ the de-facto Warlord, then it's toys could be considered Warlord toys, not fighter toys.  But, it's not, only 3-4 out of 17 maneuvers are at all warlordy, and they're not even a fair sampling of support abilities.  CS dice and multiple attacks seem very much the Battlemaster's and more broadly, fighter's things.  All very DPR-focused. Nod. And, in spite of that MDDs started as a fighter thing, got handed out to everyone, and then taken away.  Come up with other systems to power the warlord.</blockquote>Maneuvers should probably still be a starting point, rather like spells are for all the caster classes, but powering them with CS dice doesn't really fit.I don't think the mechanic is up to the task, at all.  The Warlord should hand out bonuses based on a secondary stat or something rather than a random die roll tied to extra damage.There could be some maneuvers that are just as likely to work as any attack is to hit.  They probably won't do much - assuming the Warlord doesn't have multiple attacks, they'd still have to do /something/ to keep up with cantrips, which do scale with level.Other mechanics should definitely be considered.  CS dice are damage adding riders on top of a class already dedicated to high DPR via multiple attacks/round.  That messes up the obvious inference of battlemaster being strictly analogous to EK, and EKs spells are often going to be cast /instead/ of a set of extra attacks, while the Battlemaster is always using his CS dice /on top of/ them.  Thus CS dice must be considered to be very minor in effect and very limited in number compared to what a Warlord, without extra attacks, would have to be able to do to be balanced.Other support classes, like the Cleric & Druid, do not have a 'known' mechanic limiting which certain class abilities they can choose to use on a given day, those that are up for re-assignment after a long rest are chosen from the whole class list.  Warlord maneuvers should obviously involve one or more allies.  'Preparing' should be more a matter of /training/, of working with allies so that they can benefit from the maneuver.  A warlord wouldn't learn/know a maneuver then prepare it, then forget it later, he'd be broadly conversant in tactics & maneuvers, and possibly create novel or one-off ones, but, he'd have to get his allies on board with each maneuver if they're to benefit from it, otherwise it wouldn't be of any particular use.[/QUOTE]

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