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Supplemental books: Why the compulsion to buy and use, but complain about it?
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<blockquote data-quote="Elf Witch" data-source="post: 6403091" data-attributes="member: 9037"><p>So I spent the last couple of days laid up and I see the circular argument is still going on.</p><p></p><p></p><p>The argument that if DMs restrict things then they are being high handed and dictatorial and only care about their fun is now 29 pages long. And the idea that if a player does not want to play he is being whiny and entitled even though over and over and over it has been said that not wanting to play in a game is fine and that asking and the DM for options is also fine that neither are whiny or entitled behavior. What I consider whiny entitled behavior is players who agrees to something upfront then using tactics like whining, manipulating, trying to wear the DM down to get his way when the DM has said no. </p><p></p><p>Hussar made a comment that when a DM say tieflings will be killed on sight is a DM being uncreative. That is like saying that you are running a Walking Dead game and telling a player who is insisting he play a zombie that he will most likely be killed on sight is uncreative.</p><p></p><p>Here is the disconnect I am having with people taking this approach that we are saying my way or the highway if I before we ever start to play come up with an idea for a game and tell my players this is my idea up front including the restrictions in place and they say yes sounds great I want to play and then during character creation decided that they don't want to use the restrictions that they already agreed to that some how by me not just saying okay I am a bad DM. How is that saying my way or the highway? I think the player who agreed to it is the one breaking the social contract.</p><p></p><p>My roommate wanted to run a Pathfinder adventure path she has never played or DMed Pathfinder. So after spending time on the Pazio forums and reading the material she decided that this first Pathfinder game was going to be core only. Her reasoning was she wanted to be more familiar as a DM how the basic rules work before adding in splatbooks and rules options. </p><p></p><p>Her are two conversations that happened.</p><p></p><p>DM I know you have had your heart set on playing a witch for a long time. But it is not core and I really want to get a grasp on the rules.</p><p></p><p>Me That is a bummer and yeah I am disappointed (which I was, I am been jonesing to play a witch for over a year) But I understand and since I have been wanting to play a paladin maybe that is what I want to play.</p><p></p><p>DM you should take a look at the paladins from Chelix they get to be LG and summon and control demons and I think you would enjoy that challenge. </p><p></p><p></p><p>The other conversation </p><p></p><p>DM core only</p><p></p><p>K I want to play a gunslinger. I have been reading up on Pathfinder and decided that was the first character I would want to play.</p><p></p><p>DM But it is not core and I am not comfortable using firearms and gunpowder in this game. Goes on the explain why she wants to run core only.</p><p></p><p>K sigh look everything I have read says gunpowder is not unbalancing to the setting. Pathfinder is just 3.75 so this should not be an issue for you.</p><p></p><p>DM But it is an issue for me. I want this to be core if I say yes to you then I have to say yes to everyone else and I just want my first time DMing Pathfinder to be a little less hard. What other concepts would you be interested in. </p><p></p><p>K none I don't know if I want to play if I can't play a gunslinger. </p><p></p><p>DM How about this you start with a core class and as the game goes on and I get more comfortable we will revisit this and maybe you can bring in a gunslinger later on. </p><p></p><p>K I don't know.</p><p></p><p>Any way K dragged his feet and eventually made a cleric. The game lasted two sessions because K was just such a pain in the rear over this. And since he was a friend the DM didn't want to cause friction so she took the easy way out and made up an excuse that she couldn't DM for awhile. So another DM stepped up and ran a 3.5 game and no it didn't have gunpowder even though he allows most splatbooks. </p><p></p><p>There were four other players at that table who got screwed over by the tyranny of the minority. </p><p></p><p>That is the kind of player BS I am talking about when I say entitled. And I think he was unreasonable and selfish.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Elf Witch, post: 6403091, member: 9037"] So I spent the last couple of days laid up and I see the circular argument is still going on. The argument that if DMs restrict things then they are being high handed and dictatorial and only care about their fun is now 29 pages long. And the idea that if a player does not want to play he is being whiny and entitled even though over and over and over it has been said that not wanting to play in a game is fine and that asking and the DM for options is also fine that neither are whiny or entitled behavior. What I consider whiny entitled behavior is players who agrees to something upfront then using tactics like whining, manipulating, trying to wear the DM down to get his way when the DM has said no. Hussar made a comment that when a DM say tieflings will be killed on sight is a DM being uncreative. That is like saying that you are running a Walking Dead game and telling a player who is insisting he play a zombie that he will most likely be killed on sight is uncreative. Here is the disconnect I am having with people taking this approach that we are saying my way or the highway if I before we ever start to play come up with an idea for a game and tell my players this is my idea up front including the restrictions in place and they say yes sounds great I want to play and then during character creation decided that they don't want to use the restrictions that they already agreed to that some how by me not just saying okay I am a bad DM. How is that saying my way or the highway? I think the player who agreed to it is the one breaking the social contract. My roommate wanted to run a Pathfinder adventure path she has never played or DMed Pathfinder. So after spending time on the Pazio forums and reading the material she decided that this first Pathfinder game was going to be core only. Her reasoning was she wanted to be more familiar as a DM how the basic rules work before adding in splatbooks and rules options. Her are two conversations that happened. DM I know you have had your heart set on playing a witch for a long time. But it is not core and I really want to get a grasp on the rules. Me That is a bummer and yeah I am disappointed (which I was, I am been jonesing to play a witch for over a year) But I understand and since I have been wanting to play a paladin maybe that is what I want to play. DM you should take a look at the paladins from Chelix they get to be LG and summon and control demons and I think you would enjoy that challenge. The other conversation DM core only K I want to play a gunslinger. I have been reading up on Pathfinder and decided that was the first character I would want to play. DM But it is not core and I am not comfortable using firearms and gunpowder in this game. Goes on the explain why she wants to run core only. K sigh look everything I have read says gunpowder is not unbalancing to the setting. Pathfinder is just 3.75 so this should not be an issue for you. DM But it is an issue for me. I want this to be core if I say yes to you then I have to say yes to everyone else and I just want my first time DMing Pathfinder to be a little less hard. What other concepts would you be interested in. K none I don't know if I want to play if I can't play a gunslinger. DM How about this you start with a core class and as the game goes on and I get more comfortable we will revisit this and maybe you can bring in a gunslinger later on. K I don't know. Any way K dragged his feet and eventually made a cleric. The game lasted two sessions because K was just such a pain in the rear over this. And since he was a friend the DM didn't want to cause friction so she took the easy way out and made up an excuse that she couldn't DM for awhile. So another DM stepped up and ran a 3.5 game and no it didn't have gunpowder even though he allows most splatbooks. There were four other players at that table who got screwed over by the tyranny of the minority. That is the kind of player BS I am talking about when I say entitled. And I think he was unreasonable and selfish. [/QUOTE]
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