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Message: <blockquote data-quote="GMforPowergamers" data-source="post: 6405969" data-attributes="member: 67338">it isn't any more work... they get x number of at will abilities it takes 10 seconds to adapt to that. I mean they are even built like spells. Each time the warlock gets one you learn "Hey he can now do X"Example: He can shoot a bolt that does 1d6 damage, can see in the dark and cast magic darkness that does damage... goes up a level now his 1d6 blast is 2d6 and can have a larger range...SO he uses his skills and stats. Tell me again why that is a problem? IHATE THOSE ADVENTURES... it turns into a very binary either someone gets it or they don't BS moments...so if your players have bad memories, but are playing high wisdom high Int characters, the characters can't figure that out because the player didn't... that sounds like a horrid set up.  It was designed to test the players a bit and less their characters.[sblock=DDEX1-1]Spoiler for the D&D Expeditions adventure DDEX1-1 Defiance in Phlan for those who don't want to know:that almost seems fair enough. this writer needs to be disallowed from ever writing anything for D&D again... so just to check, I am supposed to ask every person hit what they eat/are eating... this is the dumbest idea ever. Atleast if it was a skill check you could have the players get the info some how. not as bad as the soup... but pretty close. I imagine most PCs don't know where the wood for there bows come from, and if I asked 100 DMs over the cources of 10 cons next year we would be lucky if 2 knew where there NPC bows where from... that is BS to expect a PC to ask that... atleast that is a theme, once you pick up on flowers mattering you can check every flower... no the CHARACTERS are supposed to do things the PLAYER just tells you and you adjudicate (with or without a roll) how successful. Example: "Hey, I have a high Insight and Perception, and a great Wisdom and OK Survival, I look for a pattern witch skill can I roll." as apposed to say the 18 Int 16 Wis wizard who is a investigator being stumped well the 9 int and 11 wis barbarian gets it because by luck his player figured it out first...or sit around unsure of what the magic question is to ask until the DM throws them a bone... wasting time OK, then make it multi checks... like say Arcana to figure out there must be a pattern. Insight to notice something, survival to identify the plants, and perception to notice something. There is a HUGE room between make the player guess and make 1 roll. That adventure could take a year of 5 hour weekly sessions if your players aren't able to pick up on clues well great, and if I was told that you know what quastions would NEVER be asked..."Hey where is the wood for your bow from?""Hey where are the ingredients for your soup from?"on the other hand after being told that you know what I might ask "Hey I have +X in Y skill, can I roll it to look for suspicious people"so since this is supposed to take an hour, what happens if 45 mins into this no one interacted with him? Think that through... they could talk to that guy for an hour real time and in game time, find out his name, his profession, his family, where he was at 8 oclock on the 6th, detect magic on him, and even make friends with him, taste the soup, and then watch him die... and NEVER KNOW ABOUT THE DAMN PLANT...you know what, I don't need answers... but damn I need clues that work, and that is rife with ones I could never put togather... mixing that with "don't role play your character this is an out of game test" would make me ready to blow a gastgit...[/sblock] well, if it was logical, AND persuasive, then maybe not imediaatly change laws but maybe give him some benfit...so just to make sure we are on the same page... was that die roll backed up by ingame logic, and a resource use for the game (AKA I put high ranks in intimadet, I should be able to intimidate people)We played Scourge of the Sword Coast:[Sblock=spoilers]  so what happens if the PCs figure out she is a succubus, or just don't give up, or have a cool idea instead of taking another mission mid adventure? man this feels like the worst type of video game... (Why yes I have to get an antidote to save my life, and stop a homicidal clown, but let me just answer this random payphone...)how is that solving anything? wait, this adventure sets up a mystery that is only resolved when the villain monologs... ugh...  AHHH!!!! I hate this type of adventure...I agree its worse then that, although that is bad enough, it is impossible for you to solve it until the DM hands it to you...[/sblock]I would be mad, not nessarly blow up start a fight mad, but I would feel the DM was being a bit over board if they didn't let such a basic part of the game if the PCs wanted it... go back a step horrible was your word...not mine.so to teach them a lesson you told them to do something you know they don't like to do then were supprised when they didn't like something you know they don't like ?!?!?!? I am really confused here.You know they like to power game.You want to teach them what they like (powergaming is wrong)You tell them to make characters a way they don't like that will make them unhappy (roll stats)You figure out they complain when asked to do something they don't like...you know what that reminds me of. I had an ex girlfriend who loved sea food. I do not eat sea food, at all. 3 sepreate times she had me go to sea food only resterants, all three times she asked why I wasn't eating much... then when she insited I talk about why I was upset, she was shocked to learn that eating food I do not like is disgusting to me...I agree if you let in re rolls why roll right...   there are players that makes VERY UNHAPPY...  before I finish his though just think that through for a moment... if everyone but 1 person is above average... then the real average (of your game) is higher... if 4 players have 16, 16, 16, 15, 13, 10, then that is the average... and right there he communicated how he felt, and remember this is a game, no one should ever feel completely worthless in a game...Oh my god... that is the most monsterus thing I have heard... since the mod designed. how is that NICE?!?!?!?!?! that is rude, he told you he wasn't having fun and your saying you were nice by having nothing change??? please somebody, anybody... check me here. This sounds insane... you made a friend continue to play a character he is un happy with by threatning to make the character less if he didn't stop complaining... what?!?!?!I don't want to say what I really think here (or be accused of insulting) please someone else tell me if I read that wrong, because the actions sound a lot like bullying...</blockquote>

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